Canbury School in Kingston.

[ineedmoretea]

Hello everyone!

I am starting to search for secondary school for my DS who has Aspergers.He is at present in Y4 in a mainstream primary with a statement of SEN (20 hours LSA support).
I do not feel that a big secondary would fit.I have visited Canbury School and like the small size of the school but would like the views of anyone knowing of the school and their academic achievements.Any other school suggestion would be greatly welcome.
Many thanks!

Don't know anything about Canbury sorry - but would just say don't rule out bigger mainstream schools just because of size. My DS (15 - HF ASD )has 25 hrs 1-1 and when we looked at secondary schools, thought our local 'smaller' school (700 pupils) would be better. However, having visited both, he and we opted for the bigger (1300 pupils) slightly out of catchment school as it had a much better SEN department - due to bigger numbers of SEN pupils. Much more tuned in to the needs of students with ASD as they have more of them!
We are so glad we sent DS there and were surprised how well he adapted to finding his way around a large campus.
It depends on your DS's individual needs/issues but just wanted to say don't rule out bigger schools completely just because of their size.

Just had a quick look at the website. Did you see the bit on the Fees page that said:

SEN Lessons: (if required) £15.00 and £12.50 per 20 minute individual or group lesson.

Looks like it prides itself on being SEN friendly.

Are you aware of how statements work in the independent sector? AFAIK you wouldn't get 20 hours LSA for free in a private school.

Thank you for your lovely answers.I am not ruling out any options at the moment.I am a little nervous about size as he can get sensory overloaded and anxious easily and often switches of in crowded environment.
I have visited Christ's in Richmond the tour was hosted by an ambassador pupil so little info in term of Sen ,noticed a lot of 1:1 TA in classes but sadly I did not like it,the place just felt unloved if that makes sense...
Last week I also visited Halliford school ,on the phone they sounded very positive about my enquiries about SEN ,the deputy Head did a tour and sounded like an estate agent...It is their opening year but for what I understand everyone is aiming for Oxbridge.When I asked if he would offer a place to a statemented child his answer was:"I don't believe in statement"and "I would not know what to do with the money",just couldn't help but snort at the ignorance.
Canbury visit was absolutely lovely,I spent an hour with the Senco who seems to be quite experienced with pupils with AS.Out of 65 children 14 have a statement of SEN. The building and outside space is small but seems well organised with small classes and high staff ratio,again a few 1:1 very engaged with the children.Unfortunately being French I can not make sense of their GCSEs on their website.Any idea?
My DS NC levels are currently above average and he needs a stimulating environment to full fill his potential whilst not being too pressurised .
I am going to visit Orleans Park next week and in the next month,The Hall,St James,Blossom House,More House ,The Moat,Thames Christian School...to start with!
Thanks for mentioning the extra SEN fees Indigobell,in my excitement I had not paid much notice,I will need to clarify.

Indigo bell ,thanks for raising the issue,no I am not entirely sure as to how 20 hours LSA would translate in the independent sector.I was told by the Senco of DS current school that if DS was going to an independent secondary school his statement would be maintained by the LEA?Was she wrong?

Indigo bell ,thanks for raising the issue,no I am not entirely sure as to how 20 hours LSA would translate in the independent sector.I was told by the Senco of DS current school that if DS was going to an independent secondary school his statement would be maintained by the LEA?Was she wrong?

Afaik, there are students at Halliford with sn, I happen to know one with AS, there are also those who didn't quite make it to more grade-aimed private schools.
I know someone who didn't like More and moved to Stanbridge, but it's a boarding school.

Thank you Nightcat,
you are right there are students with SEN at Halliford.
But the reaction of the deputy head worried me,I clearly felt his attitude changing towards me once I mentioned the word statement,he just did not seem comfortable and his comments were close to one's of a bigot .May be ,to be fair, I need to send him all school, ED Psych,SALT and OT reports for perusal and see if they can meet his needs.In our case not too grade aimed is a good thing as I am sure a too pressurised environment would increase his stress level.
Boarding is not an option for our family,DS would hate it and we wouldn't like to have him away from us at such a young age.Would you know what your friend disliked about More?

I think you should start a new thread about statements in independent schools.

My understand was that the LEA would not pay for 1:1 in independent schools, if you decide to choose an independent school, but could go to a MS school.

I've had a brief google, and am no clearer :) So I think you should ask the rest of MN :)

This is what Barnet says:

If you wish your child to go to an independent, non-maintained (private) school

You can agree to pay the fees yourself and the LA will consider whether it will pay for the SEN provision detailed in the statement.

We are in a very similar situation to you and have a very sensitive child with I can't imagine him coping in a large comprehensive (altho he is in a state school at the mo). But i appreciate what bigbluebus said about the advantage of going to a school which is used having a number of Sen in the year group. We have visited/or are planning a visit to most of the schools you mentioned and a few others.

I am interested is it really Halliford you are talking about? Because you mention that it is their first year, so I wondered if it was Radnor House as this is their first year?

We have been to see both and found Radnor less statement friendly than Halliford.

I have heard that Blossom house is for children with autism and learning difficulties, and so may not be suitable for a child who is average or above average academically.

With the Hall it depends very much whether you buy into the quite distinct ethos of the school. I doubt it will suit my DS but may go and look round.

I know how difficult it is looking or a suitable school, very happy to compare notes if you would like to private message me.

Thanks Indigobell,
I have asked this question to my DS SEN solicitor this morning (I am currently challenging part 3 of his statement and have appealed against it's content) and she said that providing you can demonstrate that it is the right placement for his needs it is entirely possible to place your child in an independent school with a statement funded by the LEA.Great suggestion of a thread on statement and independent school,I will give it a go as can't be too informed or prepared.I am sure we could hear about interesting experiences...

I need.., sorry, don't know the details, it was just a brief conversation with a friend of a friend, the boy was a boarder, so maybe not comparable.

Halliford also has 6th from, so I woul dsay they would be trying to aim at grades, although obv not everyone will get to do A levels there.

Ooooops,I said Halliford when what I meant was Radnor House,thank you mumof2 to have pointed it out to me.
And I profusely apologise to have misinformed everyone.
I am to go and visit Halliford in January actually...

Ineedmoretea I'm glad you pointed out the error with Halliford. I know the school very well and have been impressed with their approach and attitude towards pupils with SEN. They are very protective of those boys and they all seem to thrive there. The DH is a really good person with a very down to earth and hands on approach to the school. He runs things on the ground, so to speak. I think you will do well to spend some extra time with him and their SENCO going over more detailed info regarding your sons SEN. I don't know what their policy is on statements, but everyone I know who has encountered their SEN provisions have been more then pleased. I knew it couldn't have been Halliford when you made the comment about Oxbridge ... just didn't sound like them. Good luck in January!!

Thank you Madamsin
Your comments are very informative and reassuring.Have you got any personal experience of Halliford,I am not sure what to expect.

Yes I have. I have one son without SEN who went there (big age gap) and another who has a dx of ADHD and is in mainstream primary. My plans, ideally, are for my SEN to go there at 11. It's a lovely school with a real family ethos. They really do get to know all the boys as individuals. I know most prospectuses state this, but I can honestly say it's not just a cliche here. They are accepting and tollerent of boyish behaviour whether 'normal' or related to their special needs. They also educate all the boys in the same way i.e. to respect eachother no matter what differences they have. The only boys I know that have been excluded were not SEN. I know for a fact they have boys there with ADHD,AS and other behaviour issues. The school is currently undergoing some extensive building works so don't be put off it seems a bit 'make-do' or messy ... As far as I am aware, the improvements will be brilliant and will directly be an advantage to your son's intake year - I think it should be finished in a year or so.

Ooops spelling: tolerant

No worries about spelling-I am French and mine is dreadful even in my mother tongue.

Your description of the school ethos sounds fantastic !I like the sound of the Headteacher,seems approachable.Academically how would you rate them?
It is really good to hear the opinion of someone who's child has been happy there.
I am not fussy with school appearances ,I believe in people .
I find school masquerading theirselves as some sort of country hotel really strange.Still very nice to improve when it is needed...

It must feel reassuring that you already know which school will fit your younger DS .

I think each child is able to reach their academic potential ... whatever that may be. I know for a fact my ds2 would not have made his achievements in a less nurturing environment. He was slightly lazy and could have gone 'missing' in a large class and overseen. Their academic record is in the public domain and each year they get better and better. Be careful if you look at result tables with Halliford. They opted out of some GCSE exams and now carry out the GCSE International exams for Maths and Sciences, I think ... they are shown with a 0% on pass rates on result tables. This is purely because they are a different exam and therefore not comparable. It doesn't actually mean they got 0% passes. In fact, their A Levels were the best they've ever achieved this year. My main focus for both my boys has always been the 'whole' picture and have only ever wanted them to feel happy and confident in their learning environment .. the learning tends to follow naturally once you reach that goal

Ineedmoretea, my brother went to Halliford 15 years ago.

15 years ago it was fabulous for children with special needs. Its not a new school. My brother is very dyspraxic and was really happy there. He got good GCSE results there inspite being unbelievably lazy. I have no idea if it has changed.

I think a school needs to be a certain size for social reasons.

Thank you reallytired,I am hearing a lot of good things about Halliford.
My DS has AS accompanied by dyspraxia.
I am to visit Halliford in January and visit the Senco.
I agree Canbury May be a little small in term of social interaction but I felt the Senco being really positive and confident about being able to meet my DS needs.The choice of school for a child with my son's profile is limited around London.
And unfortunately I know I will have to compromise on something...

As promised...

There are a number of kids at Canbury with AS. There are also a number of pupils with English as a Second Language - parents newly arrived from overseas on long- or short-term placements in the UK (but not as many as there used to be according to the former pupil posting on your other thread!)

Canbury is a small school which means all of the following:

• small class sizes
• limited curriculum (all pupils take the same GCSE subjects, there is no French (Spanish instead which may be a problem for you), everyone currently does Double Science (but ask about this)
• extra-curricular activities are very limited, in particular there is basically no music (but ask about this as there is a new music teacher)

Plus there are a number of consequences which are not a problem (or even an advantage) for most aspies:

• team sports are somewhat different to other schools - they are very low pressure and teams (which basically include everyone) play fixtures about once a term. There is a variety of individual sports - cross-country, athletics, swimming, kayaking, table-tennis.
• very limited circle of 'friends'

The thing that marks Canbury out from other schools that we visited and/or tried is that they really are willing and able to deal with behavioural difficulties. So many schools' attitudes to SEN begin and end with dyslexia - 'we'll give them all the support they need, but we do expect them to behave appropriately, and if they don't they will be sanctioned' - they have no idea what it is like for a kid with an ASD in a crowded playground. I will avoid mentioning some of the schools on your list specifically as they may have changed...

So basically if you think that a small class is going to help your DS learn, and a playground with only a few dozen kids in (with alternatives available e.g. library if he really can't cope) is going to help him keep his emotions/behaviour under control, you will find those at Canbury and as far as I am aware nowhere else in the mainstream in SW London. But if you believe that he can cope with a more typical learning environment, the facilities at a bigger school for science, music, drama, languages, sport etc. may be more important.

I was horrendously bullied at Canbury in 1987 because of the sheer number of kids with emotional and behavioural difficulties. There were boys in the fourth year who told me that they were going to gang rape me. I had been physically beaten black and blue so I believed them. I was terrified and point blank refused to go to school. It was hell on earth.

In fairness the school did try to help, but my parents felt the solution was to change schools. I think the teaching at Canbury was very good and the teachers did care. A lot of my classmates had learning difficulites and they still reached normal academic standards.

I think that having a unique learning enviromnent is a bit of a double edge sword. In 1987 Canbury was a bit like a special school without compromising on academic standards. I am not sure that high functioning autistic/ aspie children are best mixing with children who have emotional and behavioural difficulites.

I think that children with autism need good role models to develop social skills. Not many people with neurotyical children choose Canbury. I feel that children with autism need to mix with neurotypical children. However your child needs a school that will protect them from the excesses of teenage nastiness.

Asparent thank you so much, the information you have given me are invaluable.
Somehow the restricted choice of facilities sounds ideal in our case,my DS hates singing assemblies,performing arts such as drama and lacking the gross and fine motor skills PE,drawing,painting ,sculpting ,concerts
Etc are not very motivating activities.
A calm and structured environment is what I feel he needs for his sensory needs. He enjoys playing with other kids in the playground but also needs his quiet time with a book or a magazine more often than neurotypical kids.

Low pressure team sport sounds like a great concept to me,he is still quite clueless at football but I am sure he would be more interested if he had been passed the ball more often ...Not being terribly well coordinated he has low confidence in his abilities and obviously this impact on his willingness to partake.

French is way down my list of priority,Spanish is way more useful as a language.

Can I ask you what you mean by very limited circle of 'friends'.
Typically of AS kids my son would like to have friends but find difficult to maintain meaningful relations.
Do you feel that by being only with a very few children,"friendship"is facilitated?Or that it would be more isolating (less chances of making friends).
It has forever been a tricky one as I have always in some way supported his play date and I am only too aware of how artificial his 'frienships' are.

Also I do not understand Canbury GCSE result,we are obviously not looking for a hot house but do you feel the kids are stretched to reach their potential?All the teachers who have been involved with him are adamant that he is capable and should not underachieve.

OooohReallytired this is awful,your story is so schocking really ,I am lost for words..This must have been so traumatising,I had wondered why you had stayed only a year.
I can understand that after such an horrendous experience your parents would change you of school.I would have too.It can not be an easy memory to cope with.
I am also amazed that with such a small school your bullying went unnoticed and that beating up could take place without any adult intervention on such a small scale!!!!
I did not know either that there were such a concentration of kids with emotional/behaviour difficulties.Very worrying...
I am so sorry to hear about your ordeal.