Is there anyone around for a question about hearing/auditory processing?

[moosemama]

Hi

Just being driven up the wall by ds1 constantly turning up the TV and it got me wondering.

Why is it that he can't cope with noisy environments, like shopping centres and classrooms etc, but seems to need the TV ridiculously loud?

He starts off with it pretty loud, but then it's as if he becomes accustomed to the noise level and needs to keep turning it up to hear it. It gets to the point where its actually painful to everyone else in the room and most probably annoying to the neighbours as well, but he says he can't hear it and needs to turn it up. I am constantly having to tell him to turn it down and even have to resort to removing the remote control, but he just goes and turns it up on the TV itself when I'm not looking.

He does seem worse if there is some other noise, but also does it when the room is totally quiet.

I am just trying to make sense of whether or not this could mean anything significant in terms of his processing of sound and if it could have any relevance to school etc.

Any thoughts?

Hi Moosemama
DS does this, turns tv up loud or radio up loud. We have worked out he is turning it up loud to drown out the noises he doesnt like. :)

There are 5 of us at home and so all sorts of various things going on at a weekend from computers, talking, music in the back room, etc etc and when DS cant cope with the noise he marches into the front room and wacks the volume up! You would think it would be the oposite and that he would disapear upstairs for quiet

OT have said his problem is auditory filtering. He can hear a pin drop. At the OT assessment ppl were walking in a room upstairs and he heard it and queried it. I heard it but the OTs there didnt. We went out of the room and shouted hello to find that there was indeed someone in the room above. Because he has all these other sounds he is hearing on top of classroom chaos he runs or becomes hyper in trying to self regulate. We have done a trial at home with headphones. If he has them on he can concentrate to do his homework as he is focusing on just the one sound. Can also walk to school in a straight line with no fuss but I must say it seems to make his visual auditory more pronounced as when he was spotting the not so obvious before, he is even more intense now to spotting a broken vein on a leaf in a tree (which amazed me!)

So the volume rising was his way of getting ONE sound to focus in on to drown everything else out? iyswim :)

How old is he? Would having subtitles on help?

Could be coff33, but it tends to be when he actually wants to hear something on the tv, rather than just using it as a means of drowing out the rest of the household noise when things get too much.

He hates wearing headphones, although he currently only has the in-ear type and I've wondered about buying him proper ear-muff style ones to try. I even wondered about getting some of those expensive wireless ones so that he can have those on with the tv, rather than everyone else having to cope with his volume levels.

Its so frustrating, because obviously the louder the TV gets the louder everyone else gets to be heard over it and we end up in a viscious cycle of escalating noise - our poor neighbours!

He's changed quite a lot this year. He used to be able to sit in a room full of people with the tv on and lots of chatter etc, or in his classroom full of other children taking and completely switch it off and go into his own world, where he could just read - completely lost in his book. It would take ages to pull him out of it and actually get him to respond to you. Now, if there is just one little noise, he can't concentrate and gets really stroppy with whoever is the source of the noise - usually dd at the moment. I think it started when he had that weird visual problem with the spots/flecks in front of his eyes. The hospital felt that he was actually inwardly focussing on the blood going through the veins or arteries (not sure which) in his own eyes. He's learned to filter that out now, so he can read again, but I'm wondering if he can't concentrate hard enough to shut out both the noise and the visual disturbance.

Doesn't help that he won't be in a room on his own. So he will want to be with us in the living room, but if he wants to read, which he does a lot, we aren't allowed to make a noise or he gets really stroppy. If we point out that the living room is communal family space and if he wants peace and quiet, he has a lovely bedroom upstairs at his disposal, we then get a panic laden meltdown about being upstairs on his own.

RetroMuff, I'm not sure, but it might be worth a try. Thanks for the suggestion, I hadn't thought about trying that.

Can I ask for him to have some sort of hearing test to assess how he's hearing things? Is that something we would need to go private for - or is it worth asking the GP?

Oh, sorry Retro - he's 9 and has AS.

moose, it's not the kind of thing that would be picked up in your average hearing test, I think GOSH has an apd clinic, it's not that mainstream to test for yet.

Try some padded ones. DS cant stand the inner ear ones but I bought a padded pair for £7 from Tesco and they are comfy. At least he could put them on and listen to music softly if he wanted to read. Trying subtitles are a great idea from retromuff.

I have been to my GP with the leaflet on APD that I printed off dolfrogs site which was useful. I mentioned it to OT and she said there is nothing else other than the tests they have done as his hearing will come back ok. So I took it that she has no idea of actual APD and rooting for the GP to send him off for a test. I think its only a hospital in london that are doing it correctly, but I could be wrong.

Thanks Ninja, that's what I thought.

He actually failed his baby/toddler hearing test - back in the days where they got a HV to run around rattling and banging things behind them, rather than the electronic ones they do now. They put it down to him being focussed on what he was doing and not in the slightest bit interested in what they were doing - which kind of fits with his AS really.

Thanks for the tip coff33. I will have a look in Tesco this week and see if they have them here.

The odd thing is that he does it when there's just the two of us here and no noise in the room to speak of. Even if he's sitting on his own watching tv and I'm reading he will still watch for a while, then turn it up, then watch for a while and turn it up - etc. I've asked him why he does it and he just says "I could hear it, but now I can't hear it anymore".

Lenin, how do the noise cancelling ones work. Wouldn't they stop him from being able to hear the tv as well as all the other noise? [dopey Moose emoticon]

Thanks Lenin, they sound like they might be an idea then. Just did a quick google and they really are £££s though. There was one brand 'Altec Lansing UHP805' which retailed for £30, but unfortunately, are no longer available anywhere.

Will give it a go with normal ear-muff type headphones in the first instance and if they help a bit, we might consider getting him some noise cancelling ones at some point.

Moosemama and Coff33pot There are a couple of places that offer testing for Auditory processing disorder. Great Ormond Street and Universtity of Southampton. Great Ormond Street will accept referals but many local health autorities will not refer you because of budget constraints. Both will accept private referals.

Thank you thinksdifferently. Its not sounding like an option for ds1 then, as both places are too far away really and we have a list of other things to pay for privately already - guess we'll just have to add it to the list for now.

I would 2nd approaching your gp to see if they would refer to Great Ormond street hospital. Tony Sirimana is happy to take phone calls about Auditory processing disorder. It would also be worth getting the occupational therapist to assess your son. My son had a range of auditory tests conducted by occupational therapist - they deal with sensory issues as well as physical. The school could refer him for that that. They(the school) are like to try to disuade you budgets etc. you can also self refer via the gp if the school wont do it. Then it is all on the nhs.

Thanks thinksdifferently :) I didnt realise GOSH accepted private for APD testing. I thought it was only referral. Is Tony Sirimana from GOSH or Southampton? If so I can find out how much and start saving if GP dont refer.

The thing is that I saw him in a maths lesson this week (was doing the new intake tour with dd) and he was sitting, admittedly in a very odd position, totally focussed and concentrating on his worksheet. My jaw literally dropped open when I saw him, he was concentrating so hard that he didn't even notice myself and dd standing in his classroom doorway for at least ten minutes!

We have always been told that he is unable to concentrate in a busy classroom environment and I have copies of several classroom observations done by different professionals saying he is permanently on the move and barely sits still long enough to concentrate, with many of the observations even reporting him kneeling on the floor, basically under the desk, with his elbows on his chair - so this is amazing. The class/pupils themselves were very quiet, but there were two separate groups of parents going round on the tour and they were quietly asking questions of the people who were showing them around, so it was by no means complete silence.

His teachers have reported that he is focussing and concentrating much better this half term, but I was sceptical until I saw it with my own eyes - I was suspicious it was something to do with the SA request going in and them saying he was doing fine - but no, he is genuinely concentrating in class.

I am really confused by all this. Having thought about things since I saw him in class, I realised that he has been on a higher strength, purer, omega oil since around half term and wondered if that was relevant, as he definitely responded well to the introduction of omegas into his diet initially. BUT how does him now being seemingly able to concentrate in class relate to him not being able to concentrate and focus at home.

I suppose if its not something that is a problem for him at school, then its less of a priority to get looked into than some other things?

I suppose moosemama if DS was doing so well at school then yes I would probably put the issue at the bottom of the to do list and see if it was a home phase. I would try the head phones at home though just to see (and for you not to become deaf )

Has it been a recent thing at home? reason I am asking is if he has had a cold maybe his ears been playing up? blocked? buzzing?

That said........you are in the midst of statement issues and if the GP would refer and there was an issue then that would be another string to your bow to help the statement? bit of a do I or dont I isnt it :)

He has had a cold and in fact currently has a chest infection, but this has been going on since he had the eye problems back in March this year.

I am definitely going to give the headphones a go.

I am not sure another visit to the GP just at the moment would be a great idea - although I can't win really. Half the time I feel like they think I have blooming munchausens by proxy or something, so then I end up avoiding going unless we absolutely have to, then we take him in and it turns out he's proper poorly and we should have gone sooner - so I'm in trouble for that as well.

Its not easy to work it out at the best of times, because if he's a little bit poorly he tends to think he's going to die and get all anxious about it, but when he's really ill he doesn't say a word and we end up finding out about it by accident when its already progressed.

We did have a lovely GP who as totally on board and really supportive regarding ds - but she's on sabbatical at the moment. He's seeing the head of practice about his chest next Tuesday. He is a fantastic doctor, but very down to earth and takes no prisoners iykwim, so not really the best person to raise it with. The good thing is that he's so autocratic that he's great at handling ds. Its a case of "come in, stand there, lift the back of your jumper up I'm going to listen to your chest with this thing (stethoscope). Right, breathe in - and out - and again, and again. Ok stop." Saw a junior dr last week and she was so wooly with him he was all over the place. She also wouldn't listen to what I was saying, so despite me telling her twice that he has AS and it was no good telling him to look in her eyes, she carried on asking him to.

Dr Nicole Campbell
Engineering and the Environment
University of Southampton
Highfield
Southampton
SO17 1BJ

(023) 8059 5884

Tony Sirimana

Honorary Senior Lecturer
Division of Clinical Sciences
Institute of Child Health
University of London, UK

Tel: +44 (0)20 7813 8324 (Secretary)
Tel: +44 (0)20 7813 8289 (Direct)
Fax: +44 (0)20 7813 8261

Clinics

NHS and Private Consultations at:

Department of Audiology & Audiological Medicine
Great Ormond Street Hospital
Great Ormond Street
London WC1N 3JH
NHS Secretary: 020-7813 8430 Fax: 020-7829 7877

Private: Consultations also at

Department of Audiology & Audiological Medicine
The Portland Hospital
234 Great Portland Street
London W1N 5PH
Tel: 020-7390 6573 Fax: 020-7390 6572

Both are actively involved in research for Auditory Processing Disorder. Your frustrations are unlikely to get any better moosemama - the help advice you get will depend on whether the professional you are dealing with believes in auditory processing disorder or similiar disorders and budgets. You may see two people of similar standing in the same field and they will have different approaches to treatment.

www.apduk.org/