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SN children

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Original poster

Disturbing Disability Comment in The TImes Yesterday

100 replies

Davros · 04/11/2003 22:46

Did anyone see an article yesterday in the Times called 'I Never Thought I'd Adopt'
www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-2966-877950,00.html

It contains a deeply disturbing and upsetting passage relating to autism. The arcitle is about a woman and the process of adopting a baby. At one point her Social Worker recommended she get more experience of childcare. She did some work in a nursery and said:

"This proved to be an invaluable experience. Not only did it teach me numerous ingenious means of keeping tiny minds and hands occupied, but I
discovered that of all the 35 or so children attending, only one seemed difficult to love - and he had some form of autism. "

If you want to complain to The Times, send an email to [email protected]

OP posts:

dinosaur · 05/11/2003 12:13

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 13:29

What I object to in this is that autism is seen as a reason for being difficult to love- the way i has been written has a suggestion that someone is autistic and therefore difficult to love. Would it have been OK to write "only one seemed difficult to love- and they were ugly" or "only one seemed difficult to love- and they were black" "or only one seemed diffcult to love- and they had ginger hair". Because all these things are as relevant to being difficult to love as autism is.

NMRN seems to equate autism as being "difficult and unfriendly". It's such a cliche. Most autistic children can be challenging at times (especially if their needs are not being met). My autistic son is more affectionate than his NT brother (he loves cuddles), more willing to please than his NT brother (who goes out of his way ot be naughty). A lot of autistic children are over freindly. I don't like any stereotypes- and this phrase was an upsetting stereotype.

tamum · 05/11/2003 15:40

I've just read this thread for the first time since my post last night, and I'm pretty staggered by some of the things I've read. I'm amazed that anyone thought that the sentences quoted by Davros were defensible. I didn't judge the author on whether she was likely to be a good parent, I found a lot of the article very moving, BUT that throw-away remark was deeply offensive. It was grossly insensitive given that obviously there would be parents of autistic children reading the piece, so even if she'd thought it at the time, why on earth not edit it out? Why shouldn't we think of other people's feelings? The other posts pointing out other occasions when it would not be acceptable to say "only one seemed difficult to love- and he was in a wheelchair", for example, are spot on. It's the dismissive tone I really objected to, like "oh I know you'll all agree with me and understand when I say he was autistic". Yeah, right, say no more .

Good luck with your letter Thomcat, and well said.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:04

NMRN? I have just read your last line

"My children aren't even Special Needs, and I certainly don't expect everyone to love or even like them."

So does that mean that you think SN children ARE harder to love?

I don't expect everyone to love or like either of my children either, but I certainly don't think that NT ds2 is any easier to love.

TC love your letter btw- I would like to write and complain as well but I can't seem to organise myself coherently!

Oh and thanks Tamum

tamum · 05/11/2003 16:08

Aargh, just re-read my post and realised it comes across as if I think it's perfectly acceptable to think like that but not say it!!! I didn't think that, and it's not what I meant

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:11

chill! I didn't think you were saying that at all! Thought your post was spot on.

tamum · 05/11/2003 16:13

Phew, thanks jimjams

Easy · 05/11/2003 16:27

I know I'm going to get myself in trouble here, but here goes.

I don't see a problem with the author of this piece saying that the autistic child was difficult to love, she was stating her feelings.

In her situation I can see how she could feel this way. Children with autism are often disruptive, difficult to connect with and cold (unaffectionate). If you don't have a strong bond with such a child (as your own child for example) I can see it is very difficult to feel affection towards them.

I know Jimjams, Davros and the other mums of children with autism spectrum conditions love their children deeply, and that is a wonderful thing for both parent and child. But surely you don't expect outsiders to love them?

Before anyone says "and what do you know about it", I met my autistic stepson when he was 10, and have shared my husband's relationship with him for the last 11 years. I care about my SS, I respect him and his way of life, but despite wanting to, I can't say I love him. And I know that if he had been a child of my loins, I would have loved him, thats what motherhood is about.

Right, I've said it now. I'm just going to put on my tin helmet and prepare for your replies.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:31

I don't know easy do you expect outsiders to love your children? If you do then why on earth should my son be so much harder?

I certainly don't find this autistic child difficult to love. I don't find my friend's autistic dd hard to love either (she's a damm site easier to warm to than a lot of NT children I've met- in fact she is gorgeous). Being autistic is not a precursor to being unlovable.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:31

Look at the photo again- real child, real feelings, real mother with real emotions.

jesus god.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:33

with predjudice like this being socially acceptable no wonder I'm scared to die.

ThomCat · 05/11/2003 16:34

oh Easy - how could you. Why wouldn't jimjams and Davros expect other people to love their sons becasue they happen to have been born with autism? I'm hurt by that so God know what that comment will do to mothers whose child is autistic. Bloody hell! Are you under the illusion that cildren with autism are awful monsters who could only be loved by their own mothers?? Shame on you Easy you've disappointed me. Just because you can't love your stepson you shouldn't tar others with the same brush. BTW - does your view on children with autism stretch to other children with SN as well - just so I know, or is it just autistic children that can't be loved in your view.
Over to Jimjams and davros who will set your view on autism stright. hopefully you'll leave this post thinking differently - I do hope so.

ThomCat · 05/11/2003 16:36

Jimjams - our posts crossed. I feel so upset for you. I know you're not into things like this but if I could I'd give you a hug right now becasue I know I'd need one. I'm so sorry you had to read that post. I've got a tight band across my chest - God knows how you must feel.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:38

Easy read my post earlier- my autistic child is far from unaffectionate. When I go into nursery I can guarantee that 9 times out of 10 he will be sitting on an adults lap. I don't expect strangers to love him, but I don't expect him to be any harder to love than any other child.

I dropped him at school this morning and bumped into someone who used to work at his nursery. We were talking about when he will start to stay for lunch and I said "oh he needs a mealtime assistant first". She said "yeah but he's no problem is he- he was always the best in the nursery at sitting down and eating everything nicely" (mainstream nursery- and I have to say he isn't that good at home). Is that a difficult and disruptive child. He can lose it- but so would anyone if they couldn't make themelves understood.

Easy · 05/11/2003 16:40

JimJams,
This little boy is gorgeous, but if his behaviour is very difficult (some of the time, or all of it), then you can't expect me or another stranger to love him.

I didn't read the original quote as saying she didn't love the child because he was autistic. She found him difficult to love, I guess because his behaviour was difficult or odd or unresponsive. It turned out he had some form of autism. That's how I read it.

Anyway, do we really want absolute strangers to love our children? I want the nursery staff at my son's nursery to care for him, care about him, but don't expect them to LOVE him.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:40

Thanks TC- you are a complete sweety. (hug back)

tamum · 05/11/2003 16:42

But easy, your post implies that all autistic children are uniformly like your stepson. I'm not criticising you for your feelings, I wouldn't dream of it, but it's such a sweeping generalisation!

I would have kind of understood if she had said "only one seemed difficult to love- and he had a real problem with connecting with adults so it was hard to get to know him" or something like that, but this was just awful.

Oh jimjams, if you ever feel like putting your ds1 up for adoption I'll be first in the line. He's just beautiful.

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:43

Easy she singled him out as being harder to love than the other children. Frankly I don't give a stuff whether or not she loves either of my children but I don't want her thinking (or anyone who reads this) as thinking that autism makes someone unloveable.

Well ds1's nursery is fairly special and I know that his keyworker and the manager do love him (his keyworker was in tears when she thought everything was going wrong at shcool). It is a loving nursery, and I am pleased he went there.

M2T · 05/11/2003 16:44

Easy - what has being difficult got to do with loving a child?????

Blu · 05/11/2003 16:44

Easy, for me it is the attitude with which her comment comes across. If she had reported her true feelings by saying 'he seemed unlovable, as he...' and gave specific and particular reasons why she did not find herself bonding with that individual child, it would have been acceptable. The way she has written it implies that we will, of course, all know what she means in that it has entirely to do with autism, and all autistic children per se. It may be a subtle point, but it is often in the subtleties that prejudice is carried.

Hope you didn't need a hard hat for that

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:45

tamum LN says he looks like me- but he doesn't really - looks like his dad

Incidentally the little girl in the background (NT) is one of his 2 girlfriends. They had a fight over who he loved most. The other girlfriend won becuase she said " he loves me most becuase he's going to my school".

Anyway got to go and collect him.

Easy · 05/11/2003 16:45

Look TC, I didn't say that this or any other child can't be loved, just that I can see why this woman might find this child difficult to love.

And many people may find my son difficult to love. Fortunately I and some other people don't. Just as most children are loved by their mother's and other people (but not all)

Oh, and sorry to disappoint. Life's bloody tough isn't it?

Jimjams · 05/11/2003 16:47

except his dad has aged and isn't gorgeous anymore.

thanks for the sensible reply- blu- just what I hate about the line - but far less emotional the my response.

tamum · 05/11/2003 16:49

I noticed the little girl gazing adoringly! Bless. He's got gorgeous eyes, hasn't he?

Easy · 05/11/2003 16:49

Blu, thanx.

M2T, In the same way as you tend not to love an adult who is difficult.
Having said that my father was one of the most difficult people out, but I loved him deeply. But then, he was MY father

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