Conversation with senco, does this woman have a clue?

[popgoestheweezel]

I've just had an impromptu chat with the senco at pick up time.
Ds Yr1 is in a social communication group on thursdays with the her. No member of staff has informed me of this so I don't officially know (found out via another parent whose child said that 'all the naughty kids were in this group'), but she assumed I did and told me that she and ds had had 'a lovely afternoon'.
I asked what they were doing and what the purpose of the session was. She said that play games and they do 'lots and lots of talking'. She seemed to be saying these children (ds is being assessed for PDA and at least one other for ASD) will just learn how take turns/listen/follow instructions/sit still if you tell them to. I wonder if she imagines that at home we have never tried telling ds to take turns/not hurt others/sit still/share/listen etc etc etc? If it was that f---ing easy I think we would have managed it ourselves at home wouldn't we?!!!
I asked how we could support this vacuous and pointless talking learning at home. She ummed and ahhed and then said we couldn't really
Maybe I am wrong, maybe the way forward with all sn children is just to tell them how to behave and they will- wonderful! I think we should inform the Daily Mail that she's come up with a failsafe strategy.

Dont want a bun fight as not good for my waistline.

I didnt say just modelling works, neither did I say just social skills works. I did say when I queried agnes initial post that would social skills work with any child WITH other therapies for their relevent issues. There were two lines in my post.

Also I am not and have not said that it works for ALL ASD children. But I am saying it can work for some? And agnes is correct and was good enough to explain various levels of disability need help/strategies for their particular level (at least that is how I have read it so sorry if I am wrong) and I do fully understand her post.

And so not ALL ASD kids will be cured as you put it. But some will reap the benefits of role playing etc.

I dont know anything about ABA or any others, nor does my school and what they are doing at the moment (of their own backs and entirely their own methods in discussion with me and my views/ideas) is working.

At the end of the day the OP school is trying to help which is great. What is definately not great is that they are ignoring her very valid and important input and not working as a team with home. If they ever have the sense to listen to her and take on board her advice they just might sort out the right help tailored soley to suit her child.

So you don't disagree with the 1st bit of what I said, and now you don't disagree with the second bit that you specifically said you did. Confused.com

I don't see why the SENCO getting to know and understand your ds better by spending time with him in a small group is a colossally bad thing??? Yes, not telling you in advance is very wrong. Yes, she may be completely wrong in her blissful assumption that your ds's behaviour will improve and his anxiety levels go down as a result, but at least she will gain a better understanding of your ds that way, which no amount of throwing literature at her and telling her what you have only learnt by years of trial, error, will do. You didn't become an expert on your ds just by having people tell you all about his needs - even though he's your child, you had to learn the hard way. At least she's spending enough time with him to have a chance to gain a better understanding and over time become more receptive to your knowledge and advice. Of course, ideally, everything would be taken on board straight away and appropriate help be given at once, but the school clearly hasn't ever experienced a child quite like your ds, so don't get too impatient with them for their apparent stupidity/naivety.

I disagree with your post because MY DS is purely having social skills with no other therapies/stratagies or anything else in place at the moment. We are still waiting for OT/SALT to actually go in and help him with all his other issues. They are dragging their heals and thankfully the school are not when it comes to trying.

The social skills on its own in DS case is helping. He is not going to be "cured" as he has far more issues that do need strategies to hopefully getting to that goal but regardless of this he still needs to learn social skills one way or another to fit in with real life. This is my ds I am on about and no one elses...........so hence I agree with what agnes has put regarding other children/levels etc. But dont agree when you class all ASD kids etc etc in one basket as mine clearly isnt one of them and JUST social skils are helping, mildly but they are helping.

I hope that helps and sorry I cant be any clearer its a madhouse here today.

Rabbit stew- You say it yourself. It has taken dh and me nearly 5 years of living with ds, reading every parenting book ever printed, searching the internet for hours and posting on mn to finally discover something (PDA) which explains the nature of ds' difficulties. It's highly unlikely that even the most super-duper teacher/TA/senco could figure him out in a weekly 30 min session alongside 5 other children. THAT is why I am very diplomatically offering (not throwing) 3 pages of literature at them. I don't expect them to have figured it out themselves.

The background to this is that school have been saying he has issues from the very beginning with 'anger management, sitting still, listening, following instructions, sharing, taking turns'. We say 'We know, and unfortunately he's not getting any better as time goes by'. They respond 'but he's not the only one' 'it's not that bad' or 'he's just immature'. We say 'We are really worried about him. What advice can you give us to help him at home?' and they answer 'there's not really anything you can do' 'he'll probably grow out of it' and 'you never know, he might be OK next term/year'

On top of this we had a meeting (at reception teacher's suggestion) with the senco and head last year. The senco actually laughed at us when we were talking about how worried we were about ds (making it quite clear she thought we were neurotic and incompetent parents) and was quite frankly incredibly rude and dismissive. (Our GP had asked if she could put a few notes about his behaviour in writing for him for the referral but she flatly refused). However, dh and I both bit our tongues and smiled sweetly and thanked her for her time because (despite her dismissal of our concerns) we knew we would end up having to deal with her more in the future.

After having our concerns so thoroughly dismissed it is good news but confusing in the extreme to discover that he is having extra help. After all, they've told us many times 'there's not really anything you can do'.

Also, I would have thought that the fact that he is currently undergoing assessment for sn would important for the senco to know about, but apparently no one has given her any information at all. We told school what the paed said to us in an effort to keep them fully informed- we're disappointed that they haven't shown us the same courtesy.

Now, surely anybody would find this conduct aggravating?

Yes, I would find it aggravating in the extreme, popgoestheweasel. I can see on that basis why you are feeling exceptionally irritated.

It sounds to me as t hough they are chucking your Ds into the 'sulp' group in order to tick the box for next time you go in- they can say they've done something to address his 'communication difficulties'.

I share your pain- I have a ds with asd (atypical), which is likely to be PDA (undiagnosed due to local nhs policy to give blanket ASD Dx to all). He is currently in Y3. He had been in 3 schools by the time he left KS1 due to being excluded for behaviour which was always brought on by having inflexible demands made.

He has had SULP in 2 schools so far- both have treated him as having a 'behaviour problem'.

The Ed Psych who assessed him for his statement recognised that he has very advanced language skills, highly advanced comprehension and is able to use language to present highly logical arguments and to manipulate people and situations to his advantage.

He is now in a third school, which has done really well with him since he started in May, using the guidelines for PDA. He has thrived.

We now have a new ASD outreach teacher who has come in to 'advise' the school. Guess what? He's going to start in a new 'SULP' group.

It's their 'one size fits all' remedy. Total pile of crap. They hear 'ASD' and immediately assume any appropriate use of language must be a fluke.

they really don't understand the true meaning of 'spectrum condition' and 'spiky profile'. It makes me sick that parents are doing more research and understanding more fully theimplications of diagnoses than the 'professionals' who pour out their 'advice' on us.

Iamistillsexy, you are right they dont understand spectrum at all. In reception we were told that as he was sociable and articulate it couldnt be asd
i am going to speak to his teacher tomorrow after school- anyone got any advice for what I should say?

I think perhaps that the distinction needs to be made with regard the 'goals' and methods.

I don't think DD1's Communication group is intended to teach her how to play hide and seek. I don't think it's intended to teach her anything 'concrete', but it is intended to teach the skills that lead up to purposeful, meaningful communication.

Children with ASD may not be able to learn effectively about the social nature of communication just by exposure. But they can learn skills explicitly, and actually, whilst at a later stage the 'whys' need to come, the first step is knowing 'what'.

So, a child being taught 'first do this, then do that', is IMO just as valid as 'it's really pleasant for other people if you listen to them when they speak, think a little about what they say, and give a response that is related to what they are talking about'.

In a social communication group, the children are being taught the skills of listening, responding, turn-taking, looking, etc. All of which are pre-requisites for communication.

Btw, DD1's school is a special school, but 94% of the children there have ASD as either their diagnosis, or part of their diagnosis (DD1 is part of the 6%).

Sorry, my post doesn't make much sense...I say 'doesn't intend to teach anything concrete', then talk about 'teaching explicit skills'

What I meant, was that sometimes the contents of the group session are simply a tool to communicate the core concepts intended, rather than a goal inthemselves.

So, if the session is hide and seek, a parent said 'but my child didn't learn how to hide properly', they might say 'no, but he learned that he takes a turn, then it's someone else's turn.

I see what you mean there lougle and I'm not saying that the sessions are not useful. It's just that I remain a little sceptical because of our previous history Even now the senco says we can't do anything to support his social learning at home- what a load of bull. What she means is, 'I can't be bothered to communicate what we actually do because it would take up too much of my precious time.'
The fact that school are not following the SEN COP in one area (ie. they haven't told us that he is on school action when it is clearly and specifically stated in the code that parents should be consulted and kept informed of progress) makes me doubt their professionalism in all other areas.