What is the law on going over class numbers in EYFS?

[GloriaTheHighlyFlavouredLady]

Does there need to be another qualified teacher or will another adult do the trick?

not completely sure but I do know that when ds1 started school there were going to be 32 in his reception class (due to LEA balls up) and it meant that they were going to have to get an extra TA in. In the end it didn't matter as 3 kids didn't start in Sept cos they had moved away.

There isn't an actual law as such just a recommendation of 30 per class. Schools don't tend to go much more over this but it depends on how many staff are in the classroom as it is more to do with staff to child ratio, but technically they can get away with 30 kids to 1 staff, it tends to be more like 13 to 1 though.

Should have said the other members of staff do not need to be a qualified teacher, just a TA.

In Years R, 1, 2 there is law that states that a class cannot have over 30 per Qualified Teacher. That means that if there are 31 children in the class, there has to be another Qualified Teacher.

The legislation is The Education (Infant Class Sizes) (England) Regulations 1998

The only exception, is 'excepted pupils':

1. In this Schedule??child? means a child who is a pupil in any infant class;?the school? means the school of which that class forms part; and?governing body? means the governing body of that school.

1. This paragraph applies at any time during the admission school year to any child with a statement admitted to the school by virtue of section 324(5)(b) of the 1996 Act(1) outside a normal admission round.

1. This paragraph applies at any time during the admission school year to a child admitted to the school outside a normal admission round who?(a)was initially refused admission to the school owing to a failure properly to implement the school?s admission arrangements; but(b)was subsequently offered a place there by virtue of a determination made by the relevant person that there had been such a failure in relation to the child.

1. This paragraph applies at any time during the admission school year to a child admitted to the school outside a normal admission round by virtue of a determination of an appeal panel in accordance with paragraph 12 of Schedule 24 to the 1998 Act.

5.?(1) This paragraph applies at any time during the admission school year to a child admitted to the school outside a normal admission round?(a)in relation to whom that school is the only school (apart from any school to which he has been refused admission or from which he has been permanently excluded) which?(i)is within a reasonable distance from his home, and(ii)provides suitable education; and(b)who did not, at the relevant time, ordinarily reside at a place which was within a reasonable distance from that school.(2) In sub-paragraph (1)(b) ?the relevant time??(a)in relation to a child to whom regulation 2(3) applies, means the time when the majority of pupils in the age group in which he falls were admitted to the school; and(b)in relation to a child to whom regulation 2(4) applies, means the time referred to in sub-paragraph (c) of that paragraph.

1. This paragraph applies to a child?(a)who is a registered pupil at a special school, and(b)who, by arrangement with another school which is not special school, receives part of his education at the other school,at any time when he is in an infant class at the other school.

7.?(1) In this paragraph, ?designated pupil? means a pupil with special educational needs who?(a)is a registered pupil at a school which is not a special school; and(b)is normally educated in a unit which?(i)forms part of that school, and(ii)is specially organised to provide education for pupils with special educational needs.(2) This paragraph applies to a child who is a designated pupil at any time when he is in an infant class which does not form part of the unit referred to in sub-paragraph (1)(b).(3) Where this paragraph applies to a child, regulation 4(1) shall have effect in relation to that child as if after ?in another infant class at that school? there were inserted ?(other than a class which comprises or forms part of a unit referred to in paragraph 7(1)(b) of the Schedule)?.

1. Paragraphs 3 to 5 do not apply to a child with a statement.

If you are talking about nursery age (term after 3rd Birthday-Aug 31st prior to the 5th birthday) then it only has to be an Early Years Qualified member of staff (ie. NVQ II/III/IV)

Also, if pupils are admitted as excepted pupils, the class may remain in excess of 30 pupils only for the remainder of the academic year. The following September the school will need to agree arrangements with the LEA to comply with the limit.

Thank you.

I followed up your post Lougle and found that the definition of 'qualified teacher' includes those who are specialist instructors but without teaching quals. Would an ABA tutor be able to be described as such

The year group is reception btw

Not entirely sure but in a tribunal judgement I read, although the school was willing to accept the aba tutor, the parents did not get the placement of their choice. According to the judgement, this was because the next year (Yr 1), it would take the class over 30 children, an additional teacher would have to hired and the probable implication would result in unreasonable and inefficient use of resources.

I don't think the point about the aba tutor being 'qualified teacher' was brought up by the legal team though. It might be that they missed it.

mmm...don't know. But I would think you need to tread very lightly...IIRC one of the LA's arguments against your proposal is that ABA is education, and ABA tutors aren't qualified teachers.

Now, we know that your argument is that it is a tool, not education, but I can't see how you could argue both against the LA's argument and for them to meet the ICS regulations simultaneously.

Lol Lougle. Quite right.

Not sure how helpful this will be, but just wanted to let you know that in our case, ds is the 31st child in his Reception class (he got his place via statement, after the submission process). They have not employed a full-time member of staff - just have the class teacher and CA.

His ABA tutors go in for 3 days a week but this is of course funded by us, and they're against our appeal to get this funded full-time by the LEA. And we might be stopping after Xmas anyway, and there has been no discussion about employing anyone re class size legislation.

Point is that it appears that in reality schools do not always stick to the 30 rule if it doesn't suit them. But of course they will use this as an argument against you.

bialystockandbloom - your DS would be an 'excepted child' so they don't need to meet the ICS regulations this year. Next year, they will have to stick to regulations - 30 children per Qualified Teacher.

Okay, so I've found a school that already has 2 excepted children. I know the HT will resist and be bloody annoyed but could I argue that he should go there because they will already be making arrangements for an additional QTS for the following year?

Don't see why not - unless she knows something that you don't eg. 2 of the children moving away etc.

How are you?

Mmmm...except you'd have to look a little closer at their numbers.

For example, if their current YR cohort 62 (two excepted children), but their current Y1 cohort is 58, they could choose to make next year's cohort as follows:

Y1 class
Y1/Y2 mixed class
Y1/Y2 mixed class
Y2 class

Which means that they wouldn't be making additional arrangements, they would just be shifting the children into acceptable numbers.

Also, every area has a natural turnover of children, so you'd have to bear in mind what tends to happen at that school/schools in that area. Is it likely that 2 children could have left that school by July? In which case, again, they could argue that it isn't an issue.

Thirdly, you need to look at the floor space, net capacity, etc. Part of the prejudice consideration for appeals panels for places is looking at the building, to see if it can cope with another child.

No, children won't be moving away from the school. It is a school you have to live on the doorstep to and the 2nd highest in the league tables for all of our county.

I think tbh that we wouldn't win a case to get into it as the only thing that puts it above the vile school that he's got a place at would be their willingness to incorporate ABA, and whether they are or not they would SAY they are not as they won't want an extra child in an already oversubscribed classroom, if not at the beginning, certainly by the time the LA had finished with them.

So we're stuck with vile school then. We're going to tribunal to get our child into the very last school we want him to go to (albeit with ABA tutors who will leave after a week of their hostilities).

If school won't accept ABA (if it's ordered), I would be going right back to Disability Discrimination Tribunal. They can't carry on being arsey if you win this forthcoming Tribunal without being guilty of discrimination - if the 'adjustment' has been proven to be needed/ ordered by this Tribunal, they just need to accept it.

Oh gloria, don't be put off by me, but you know me...I won't just say what someone wants to hear, even if I think they're fantastic

You need critical support, because when you go to T, it will be gloves off.

LGO, this tribunal may well not order it BECAUSE the school won't accept it. Nevermind DDA, apparently to order such a thing would undermine the HT, create a hostile environment which won't be in ds' interests.

BUT, I CAN make it clear that for the tribunal to make their decision on that basis they risk aiding DDA, but then they may just find another 'official' reason.

The worst case of course is that we lose. The ds is stuck in a vile school that has refused to work with us that will be extra-secretive about what they do and deliberately go against anything we say in order to stamp their authority.

Garrggghhh. That's crap. When is it?

Mid Jan.