asd, i just don't know

[pramsgalore]

Hi, i have been on here before regarding my ds who has asd and you have all always been so helpful, but today i am looking for advise about dd4 who is 3 years old, i know i should know with the fact i have ds but i suspect and don't iugwim.
my dd walks on tip toes alot very high with out shoes on, with shoes on not so much she does have flat feet [don't know if that makes a difference], she is always panting like a dog, she don't like people all that much and never has, she is obessed with drinking to the point that she has had tests to check she is alright, she does not sleep at night and is still wondering around at midnight getting up to allsorts, she refuses to eat at the table, infact she hardly eats because she can not stay at the table, she is not potty trained and has no interest in starting, when i have taken her nappy off and put big girl pants on her, she has had a tantrum and refused, going as far as getting another nappy and either throwing it at me screaming or trying to put it back on herself, she hates loud noises, she throws things, hits and screams, i always thought she played alright with toys, but watching her she don't really play she goes from one thing to another very quickly, i know all this could easily be a normal 3 year old, but the older she is getting the more i am thinking is there more to it, she starts nursery in jan and i was just going to keep my worries to myself and see if nursery mention anything to me/if they have any concerns, ds has an appointment in feb [just a yearly meet up with consultant] so thought if nursery did comment off their own backs i could mention it then, what would you do/think nothing to worry about or something there.

It' so hard to know when they are little. The toe walking would concern me I think, although they do often just get into these things and it's hard to break the habit. I'm no expert and as you say, it'so hard not to be paranoid about every little thing and it does get to the point where you can't see the wood for the trees. You need an independent viewpoint. I would get her checked out, for your own peace of mind as well as anything else. Plus early intervention is so vital at this stage and can make such a difference. If you hang about, the SN guys on here are just so great, sure someone will be along in a minute. Dolfrog et al are as good as any specialists I've ever seen

Sounds like lots of red flags there.

Everything moves so slowly in 'the system', that there's no harm in getting the ball rolling now..... Because it will still take years for anything to happen.

Why don't you talk to your GP and see what she thinks?

it's difficult because with ds it was so in your face something was wrong, i think maybe i shall make an appointment with gp for a chat and see what he thinks, but i am worried i will be laughed out of his office, worried he will say just because ds has asd don't mean dd does , i don't usually care what people think [having ds has made me like this] but i have no confidence when i am unsure.

The GP won't laugh.

a) It's just plain rude. :)
b) The odds are higher that she'll have ASD because her brother has.
c) None of what you say sounds normal for a 3 year old
d) Lots of kids with very real ASD don't get diangosed to 8 or older - it's not always 'in your face'

ds was diangosed when he was 4 and the process took a few months in total although he was having speech therapy well before then, so i surpose already in the system, dd's speach appears fine to me, looking at her now, has just reminded me, she fiddles with fabric, carrries her pillow round the house with her fiddling with the pillow case and kind of making sucking noises while fiddling with it up near her face, this is her fav thing to do in the day.

also forgot to say, when she had the last check with the hv [the one where they get them to build, draw a circle, bead in a cup etc] she refused point blank to do any of it, instead hung onto me and screamed and just kept saying no, the hv put it down to shyness, my fault because i did not take her to any mums and baby play groups [also the same hv, that said ds did not require help with his speech, even though he could not even say mummy until he was over 3] i never have because she does not like people and it would just have stressed her out, but she does go to the park and run about, but has never really played with other peoples children, she has pointed at children her age and said look at the baby or baby in my way.

So she clearly failed her dev check with the HV.

Why don't you take her back to the HV and say you don't think she is just shy, this is how she always behaves.

And ask for her to be referred on to a dev paed.

i did make it clear to the hv that that was normal for her and she was like that with everyone including grandparents, but she just said its not worth asking you to come back as she will just be the same and got me to answer her questions which i did, but she went through them so quick i just was answering maybe, yes i think so etc, it was a complete waste of time really
dd was 2.4 years when 2- 2 1/2 year check was done hv wrote
dd is a very shy little girl and didn't want to cooperate today, mother reports age appropriate still and no concerns.
i did show concern over the fact she hates everyone and toe walking, but at 2.4 years its difficult to know whats right for the age and the hv did not seem interested in the fact she toe walked and would not cooperate, there is no way i am going back to her, she was of no help with ds, just fobbed me off, it was her boss that referred him to speach but you contact them and you get her.

how are they different, i struggle to understand asd, but i understand/get ds so getting there/learning on the way

i am waiting to go on the early birds course for ds over a year later, need to chase that up really, its just all so confusing, i suspect dd1 has as, but she is 12 now, i did try and get her seen when little, about 3 i think she was, but the lady that came out, blamed her odd behavour to the fact dp had lost his job anyway told me she would grow out of it, well she still don't sleep and struggles a bit with social situations, but she is very clever without really trying, she messes about and does not listen and rushes everything, but yet seems to always get very high grades, she can be a little odd and is very young for her age, but i gave up too quickly and had never heard of as or asd 10 years ago and it was never mentioned, i got fobbed off and that was that. and now i find myself here again, but this time with a little more knowlege due to having ds. i shall make an appointment with gp and see what he says, it can do no harm and if there is something then like people have said the earlier its seen the better.

thanks, dd4 tiptoes but does not hand flap, she also hates and i mean hates having a shower, her hair washed and brushed she screams the place down, she is fine sitting in a bath as long as you don't touch her hair though. and the screaming and throwing things is really bad, i am surprised she still has a voice at times, she also is refusing to give up her baby cup [sippy cup] i have offered her a beaker but she slams it down and screams at me baby cup [she can drink out of a cup and does when she gets hold of her sisters drinks [she is so bad with drinking she will drink any drink thats around, good job we are tea total] but goes mad if i give her a drink in a cup/beaker, her drink has to be in her cup. when she was a baby she seemed to hate everyone, just about put up with me, as she got older she would stick to me but no one else, now she will go to brother and sisters and her dad and thats it, she is getting better with grand parents but still a bit 'i don't want to sit on your knee' when they pick her up she will struggle until she is put down, everything seems to have to be on her terms, i used to have to pull the hood over her when in a queue say in a shop, people behind me would smile at her and she would burst into tears screaming the place down, putting the hood over would calm her down, i would even ask people to stop looking at her, but they would then see it as being a challenage to get a smile this has got better and now she just ignores and looks down or to the side, the other day she blew a raspberry at an old lady for talking to her, which i thought was an improvement in a way. she also loves dry bread and often climbs to get to it, this is the thing she eats the most, i have to hide the bread, she somehow manages to get it off the worktop, she only tiny, but a good climber

she did have a tramatic birth, she got very stressed and it ended in an emergency c section, with me being knocked out and dd having to be resusitated twice, don't know if this makes any difference as ds was a normal birth, however he did choke on his milk at 2 weeks and stop breathing. [i do beleive this has had some impact on him, but thats just my thinking]

sorry about spellings, not my strong point

there are some books specifically on asd in girls perhaps you could do a thread asking for recommendations. Are some red flags and tough as it is to pursue it, its also tough on you not to as you are clearly worrying and finding her behaviour difficult. DS got dx at 2.5 and it took until 3.11 to get proper intervention so my advice would be don't wait, you wait long enough as it is. Nurseries often don't have a clue. I'd also go to the GP not the HV and say the HV did not listen to you. They know ASD can run in families so you should get a referral

this thread could have been written by me! so many things are exactly as they are with ds2 (almost 3). ds1 has AS, and ds2 has never been a child where I would have said that I am absolutely certain he is NT iykwim. but over the past 6 months his behaviour has been getting more and more difficult and odd and the alarm bells are starting to ring. ds2 is, like your dd4, starting nursery very soon (in december) and I too decided to wait how he gets on there. but deep down I am quite worried. there are so many things pointing to ASD, although he is very different than ds1. one thing I have not noticed with him is lack of eye contact. also he doesnt seem too be all that bothered about routine. there are some things that always need to be the same or changes that really upset him (however small), but I guess I am comparing him to his older brothr for whom routine is essential. If I wanted him assessed I think I would be able to have that done in a matter of weeks ( we are in GErmany) as we are already in the support system for ds1, but for some reason I am holding back, want to give him the chance to show different behaviour at nursery. Silly? sorry, I am practically highjacking your post, pramsgalore, but the worries and thoughts I have been having are so much the same as yours I felt silly starting a new thread. I hope you dont mind. :)

I have 2 girls with autism, and they are very different from boys but also very different from each other.
Start a diary of her behaviour, take it to GP and demand a referral. These things take a long time especially if a child is high functioning. They are likely to see, wait and see what nursery say but at least the ball will be rolling. Please dont wait, easrly intervention is so important even for high functioning children.
If it helps, DD1 was verbally dx'ed at 5 and properly at 6. DD2 was seen and we were told very likely at 2 and dx;ed at 3years. She has had a huge amount of imput including a special school, and she has done so well.