Come and chat with me about my DS please :( (long sorry)

[3cutedarlings]

Hi all,

I posted some time ago about my DS here. We he is now now 33 months we have seen lots of improvement with his speech but he is still behind, well i say behind this is just me compairing him to his peers. We have our first appointment for SALT tomorrow, so hopefully i should soon find out just how delayed he is . He does have lots of words and will use them in context, he can also string upto 3 words together but its done in a sort of sing song fashion and unless you know him really well it is difficult to grasp what he is saying, he still has he own words for things for example he insists on calling ambulances dat tay's .

He will also like to have the same conversations with me (or anyone that will listen) over and over. Which goes as follows.

DS - Daddy work?

Me - Yes DS Daddy is at work.

DS - With a Hammer?

Me - Yes he will use a Hammer at work.

DS - and saw.

Me - Yes he may need to use a saw.

DS - and a screw driver?

Me - Yes and a screwdriver.

We have this same conversation, along with another one about letting the hens out several times EVERY day .

He can point and wave and he understands really well, he can also follow simple instructions (if he wants to!!!)

He still rarely plays with toys, tho he loves fire engines and will play with these for a short time. He would still sooner just charge round hitting things/people with them.

He just does not seem to know how to calm down, when i try to (or anyone) discipline him he will lash out, kick, scream and bite, he even spat at me once. I have no idea where he got this from, to my knowledge he has never seen anyone spit . Ive tried everything i can think of, from the naughty step which just ended with me in tears and black and blue, i dont think i actually managed to get him to sit for longer than 10 seconds, i even tried smacking him (pathetic, i know ) everything just seems to make the rage worse.

Just last week at playgroup he was playing with my friend (who he know quite well) and her DS. DS decide to snatch the toy that they were sharing away, my friend then takes the toy from him and puts it back down between them. DS then hits her and her DS runs away and comes back with a rocking horse and throws it at them . This is just one example, i could go on.

However on the same day, he so carefully helped a young toddler climb up the slide and took several toys over for a young baby to play with. He does seem to like the other children but he doesn't really interact with them that much.

He still loves to climb EVERYTHING my DH has had to make a gate for his bedroom door which is almost 5ft high. We have had to turn his drawers to face the wall, as he removes them and uses them to climb up and over the gate. He can open his car seat (any car seat actually, i tried several different ones in Halfords) and will do so while im driving, if he decides he wants to get out then no amount of threats from me in the drivers seat will stop him. I now no longer go anywhere with him alone unless i know there is a route i can take with lots of save places to pull over. I have also resorted to fastening him into to his buggy with a padlock after a i lost him in the supermarket for over half an hour, as again he can open the buckle.

Last week went to Makaton introduction morning at my DDs school which was ran by the Nursery SENCO who is very experienced with various types of SNs, as our school nursery has a SN's unit. She has work there for 20 plus year. DS was actually quite well behaved (he was testing, but he didnt hit out ) so i felt it went really well. Anyway today i dropped my friends DD off at nursery and the SENCO came over to ask what i thought of the makaton morning ect ect, i mentioned that DS has his first appointment with the SALT tomorrow and she said oh good is that part of his combined assessment? pursoming that he was being assessed now for ASD. When i said no its just at our local childrens centre she looked at me gone out i said i was still just keeping a very close eye on him and that i would seek more professional advice, should she feel we need it once he starts pre school. She then said that having referal in the in the system for him prior to him starting nursery (in April) would be beneficial.

I just dont know what to do? am i just dragging my heels here? i had it in my head that if things dont go well when he starts nursery then ill act then. I still feel that if we can just get he speech better then his horrid behaviour will improve, but after this very brief chat with the SENCO im starting to feel like i might have had my head buried in the sand. Is any of what ive written ringing bells? tho i have a DD with an ASD she was very different to my DS as a toddler and she is as a whole quite passive and is rarely as explosive as my DS.

Sorry this is so long, im heart broken i feel like ive let DS down and ive missed something that i really should have seen. I think i have kidded myself into believing that DS was just plain naughty :( and i just needed to find a parenting style that suited him.

I just wanted to say that you must be worried or you wouldn't have come on here. You are a good parent who wants the best for her Ds.

No 2 children with ASD are the same, that doesn't mean I think your DS has ASD it just means that he doens't have to be like his sister.

FWIW, I think you should get a referral, nobody is going to diagnose your DS with something unless they are absolutly certain about it. It could take months to get an appiontment and if your DS does need support at nursery you will be on the way to getting it.

Don't beat yourself up, it is a really tough thing to do, to go and tell someone that you think that there is a problem with your wonderful child.

Getting a diagnosis wuld not change your little boy anyway it would just open doors for him.

Good luck what ever you decide.

In lots of ways you could be describing my now 5 year old as he was when he was younger.
I delayed getting any dx when he wasn't talking, wasn't pointing etc and then he started talking.
He has an older brother dx-ed a year ago with AS and they are very different. At his dx meeting I finally decided that i had to know for my own head whether DS2 had ASD or not. He is now on the waiting list. I am hoping that his odd moments when he can suddenly be very kind and helpful will rule out ASD and he was/is just an awkward child.

Good luck with your decisions :)

agree with Ineedalife. It is v. hard ime to get taken seriously about referrals/language problems before 3 anyway, so you have done really well getting him this far in the system prior to 3. Unfortunately it can easily take up to a year (or more in some areas) to get an assessment, so it's far better to be in the system (can always cancel appointment if your DS progresses massively) than to wait till he starts nursery.

Re:discipline - even a simple language delay can cause problems with discipline - at 3 my DS just wouldn't have understood starcharts/naughty step etc - so don't feel obliged to follow the same Supernanny type advice, you are the expert in your child, if something works then stick to that. It might help if you try and take a few notes as to what leads up to the worst outbursts, so you can try and identify trigger points, and head things off at the pass. Might be worth you googling sensory issues as well, see if that rings any bells.

You haven't failed your son at all. It's early days yet. He does sound a lot like my son did (apart from the hitting thing) and he is Asperger's. He is getting angry because he is confused and can't understnad things or make himself understand. He probablly is suffering from sensory overload as well. Minimise choices and he won't understand abstract concepts such as 'good' 'naughty' or even 'quiet'. You will need to use signs and symbols to reinforce these things.

I'd ask for a referral for a diagnosis. The earlier you get diagnosed then the sooner things can be put in place to help him. Don't beat yourself up - we can all do that about our parenting. I also found that naughty step etc never worked with my son - it's too abstract for them. Do what works for you. I found splashing his face with cold water could shock him into calming down.

Good luck.

Agree with Tocha [mutual appreciation society].

Supernanny type stuff works great with NT kids but not with ASD type behaviour.

Much of the bad behaviour would be caused by anxiety or lack of understanding.

When my Dd3 was 3 she was virtually impossible to discipline, everything would end in her lying on the floor screaming.

I also try to avoid the worst triggers but it has taken time to work out what they are.

We use a red and yellow card system now for Dd3 to moderate her behaviour [like the footballers].

He might respond to visuals better than verbals. As you have been on the MAKATON course you could try some signing with him especially the ones for "No" and "Stop"

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice :)

Its actually like reading my own advice in lots of respects. I have got the blinkers on, i just cant see the flames for the smoke at the moment.

I have started using bits of makaton with DS and i do feel that given time to get to grips with it, he will respond better to a visual as well as verbal instructions. Finding the triggers to his meltdowns is going to be tough one as at the moment it seems to be just about everything, he's always so angry for some reason or another and thats if we actually manage to find a reason .

Of course this all has a huge impact on both my DDs too, DD1 (ASD) can be a wreck at times , thankfully as she has got older she has learnt lots of self calming methods which has helped but i just hate seeing her so with drawn.

Anyway the plan is to see how we get on the SALT tomorrow (hopefully we'll drop on and get a good one) and then visit the GP, thankfully my GP is a star and im quite sure he'll refer DS without any problems.

Just back from seeing the SALT, it didnt go well (well it did, but it obviously wasnt what i wanted to hear.

She wasnt the regular SALT she was covering as she has rang in sick, the SALT that we saw was sent into cover from the CDC, and she actually works along side DD1's consultant.

She feels that DS's development is delayed in several areas :( i cant remember lots of the terms she used (my head has toally gone to mush) but she is going to speak to DD1 consultant this afternoon and then refer him to either the combined clinic at the CDC or the community pead. She is also going to refer him to the inclusion team as she feels that additional support will be needed for when he starts nursery.

She was really good and obviously very knowledgeable and i know its great that she is taking things very seriously. This wasnt what i expected tho, i thought that they would want to try a few sessions of SALT to start, and then take things from there. I dont know why (i should be used to this ) but i just feel so shocked.

3cutedarlings - sending you a big hug :)

You are doing all the right things and I know it must be so horrible having to go through all this again. It could be be something but then it could be nothing, try not to worry.

What is his eye contact like?

His eye contact is fine sleepyhorse, its certainly better that DD1's but in faitness it is actually hard to get him focused on you and bloody still long enough to actually see where he is looking iyswim? (he is such a busy boy), DD even at a very young age would often look like she was making eye contact but she would actually be looking else where on your face.

.......here i go again compairing them .

Ok well that's a good sign re his eye contact. What about his attention span?

I'm a nursery teacher. If I was your ds's nursery teacher I think that I would find it really helpful to work alongside professionals before your ds started at nursery to ensure that his needs were met as early as possible. Transition points eg. starting at a new setting can be stressful for many children.

I think it sounds very positive that the SALT is already working with your ds consultant, and I would urge you all to share information with the nursery as soon as possible.

How do you think your ds will get on at nursery?

sorry it was such a tough appointment, obviously it's good that the SALT you saw was so on the ball and plans to follow up thoroughly with paed/nursery etc but it's still a shock to hear someone say that, even when you would have been pissed off to be told there was no problem etc.

sleepyhorse His attention span is lousy tbh :( even with things he is interested in he struggles. Today the salt had a wooden jigsaw puzzle, she was trying to get DS to pass her the pieces, she was very enthusiastic in getting DS to engage with her, he did 3 of the pieces and lost interest he wouldnt engage with her any further. He was more interest in playing with the kitchen utensil set, he really likes tools and things like that.

Littlefish I will share everything with the Nursery, like i said in my original OP its a school nursery at my daughters school. Its only a small village school so everyone knows everyone, so to speak. Im going to pop in and see the SENCO (who we did the makaton introduction course with) and bring her up to date.

As for coping, i honestly think its going to be a nightmare . He'll enjoy it, but im not sure how they will cope with his behaviour, if he is not closely supervised he will hurt the other children . The plan is to for me to start taking him in from January for 1/2 mornings a week for around January and i will stay with him, im hoping that by doing this it should ease him in gently and ogive them the chance to get to know him. Im lucky the nursery is very SNs orientated, it really is the best setting in our area for him. Lots of the children there have complexed SNs and often go onto a SS setting rather that MS.

tocha Thanks for your kind words, i know its good that the SALT was so switch on, i think we may have fell very lucky today (if you can truly call it that lol) and yes i would have seriously been pissed off if she'd have said DSs behaviours were normal, actually i think i would have shown her the bruises on my arms and ask her if she thought they were normal to . I think she found it easy to be quite blunt with me, i managed to keep very strong and straight to the point. I sobbed buckets when we got out though.

The nursery setting sounds great 3cute. They will know how best to access additional support for your ds, which is another reason to work pro-actively with them as soon as possible.

I hope it goes as well as possible for you.

Small update, I have spoken to the SALT again this afternoon. Unfortunately DD1 wonderful consultant is currently on leave, but she has done the referral to the combined clinic at the CDC rather than the community pead anyway. Im really pleased about this as we didnt really have a good experience with the community pead with DD1.

So we should be seen there in Feb next year and the inclusions team will be intouch soon and its likely to be January by the time they see us. She has also got us a place at a SNs toddler group and we start there one morning a week starting next Tuesday!!

Have to say im extremely surprised how quick this is all moving!!

wow, that's impressively fast, but I know that's a bit of a consolation prize, as it's not what you hoped for your child, to be going down the whole SN route again.

3cutedarlings - I'm sorry you're having to go through this. It sounds like very good provision though. I hope it goes well at the toddler group next week.