Can someone talk to me about pronoun use and "generalizing"?

[laraeo]

DS will be 4 in Feb. He's been having SALT for 1 1/2 years for suspected verbal dyspraxia and went from saying perhaps 5 words to talking up a storm, big sentences, adjectives, questions, the whole bit. I'm in the US and we have 2 SALTs. One from the school district because they provide services for children over 3 and one private because he has an IEP from the school district so our insurance will continue to pay for it. I have no problems with the private SALTs. They are primarily working with his phonetics. The school SALT has decided to concentrate on grammar and usage issues which made me but okay.

For weeks and weeks now all the school SALT has done has work on pronouns. The same pictures week after week asking DS to say "he" or "she" does whatever. Last week "they" was thrown into the mix but still using the same pictures. DS is bored to tears, doesn't pay attention, and the whole thing is frustrating for everyone.

Today was the worst - mostly because he's got a cold. After 20 minutes of pronouns and increasing frustration from me & DS, I called a time out and asked why we were still working on pronouns and if we had to work on pronouns (which I don't think we do) then can there PLEASE be some other activities? She gave me some SALT jargon back basically saying grammar/usage is connected to making sounds and if he can't use pronouns then he can't "generalize".

I guess my question is when do children start to use pronouns to "generalize", i.e. "He is fixing the car. She is reading. They are swimming" sorts of things. He can easily tell you if someone is a "he" or a "she" in real life but looking at these pictures things just aren't clicking or he doesn't see the point. To top it off, I don't think the SALT does a good job at explaining things to him and she does things that I'm assuming are SALT-type things like telling DS he can have a toy, showing him the toy, him reaching out for the toy, and then her jerking it back out of reach and saying he must do x first which confounds DS.

Sorry for the long post. I don't sit with the private SALT but I get good feedback from them, explanations of what we should work on, and they go on about his amazing progress, good vocabulary, etc. I'm assuming if they had problems with him, they'd tell me that too.

Get one person. I.e his dad, and ask a billion times 'what is daddy doing?' sometimes it should be normal things but at other times silly things.

Keep doing it. When he consistently replies 'he is' introduce another boy/man that you see quite regularly. Always correct/model the answer and interupt as soon as there is a mistake. Then do it across random men and boys.

Then introduce a familiar female i.e sister/nan etc.

And ignore the stupid declaration about generalisation. It is a nonsensical standard answer to any challenge a parent presents.

Thanks for that. DS does use pronouns when he's talking which is part of the reason why I'm a bit fed up with the school SALT right now. We'll practice more at home with it and hopefully wow her after our Thanksgiving holiday.

Perhap his problem is gender recognition in pictures rather than pronouns then?

I'd thought about that too. The pictures are traditional - girls with long hair and dresses, boys with short hair and shorts/trousers. He can identify girl or boy in the picture and when he feels like it, can use the correct pronoun. Part of the problem comes from the fact that the SALT doesn't understand DS when he says "she" or "he". I do because I'm with him all the time and "cleaning up" his pronunciations is what I (and the private SALTs) think really needs to be done. The SALT will ask him again, DS thinks he's wrong, says the other thing, the SALT asks him again, DS gets frustrated.

I'm just not convinced he needs to be drilled in he/she/they and if he really does, then it should be in shorter segments, i.e. 5 minutes drill, 2 minutes reward rather than 20 - 25 minutes of drill and very little reprieve.

The SALT said I'm the only preschool parent who sits in on the sessions. After Thanksgiving, I'll lurk in the lobby area and eavesdrop on what's going on. If things don't improve by the new year, I'll see if I can switch SALTs. Problem is we're in a very rural area so there just aren't that many school district SALTs and we're supposed to use the one at our "home" school, where DS would go if he were in school.

Ds2 is 5 and a little bit. He has used 'he' for a long time but only really got she in the last couple of months. For the last 6 months he would say she if pulled up on it but not automatically. My sister is a SALT and about a year ago she said I'll have his pronouns cracked in an afternoon. Ummm no ! However he is awaiting assessment for ASD.

DS 3 is 3 and I think NT he uses he but no sign of she yet.

Puzzling. DS2 (5yrs) has difficulty with both gender recognition and pronouns, but I don't ever see that type of drilling on it. It's just something that I and the TA and the SALT reinforce over and over during conversations, general discussion, school lessons, and give positive reinforcement when he is correct. The pulling the toy away is odd, it would only frustrate DS2, who would then point blank refuse to cooperate.

DS6 still has trouble with his pronouns but I'm not sure that the sort of intensive, repetitive session you describe would help him either. We just model like mad! And always correct it. I'm sure different approaches would help, eg using dolls, Star's approach, etc.

I was also convinced that one of the reasons DS scored poorly on a particular assessment was the pictures came from the 70's. A dial up phone FGS! When had DS ever seen one of those?

I think it is the constant drilling more than anything else. DS can definitely use pronouns correctly in conversation - he/she/I/we/they. I just don't think he really wants to do it for her and she hasn't found a good, consistent way to motivate him. I also think he's bored by the whole thing.

The whole pulling the toy thing drives me loopy. I think she does it partly because when he started with her, he was just starting on sentences and she was trying to get him to say "give" or something. Now it's just a nuisance.

Larao, the drilling and toy thing sounds like extremely badly implemented ABA. Perhaps she's trying the approach without fully understanding it or perhaps simply being no good at it.

how strange! my ds had no problem with generalisation but was quite eratic with he/she at that age, despite knowing gender difference. I think your gut instinct is absolutely right - no need to spend more than 5 minutes practicising if it really is necessary.

If a child isn't making signs of progress after 3 attempts it is time to switch strategies IMO. The teaching is obviously failing or your objectives are not clear or small enough.

Wilson - Perhaps your DS6 & my DS are getting their photos from the same company! The ones the SALT uses are so 70s it's painful - we've also got the dial phone! I know our school district is broke but jeez!

Starlight, it's interesting you bring up ABA therapy (which I know nothing about other than it's used for those with autism). I asked the SALT about her experience in dealing with preschoolers since she's in a school setting and in the US we start at 5. She said she's got about 6 preschoolers this year and prior to that she was in a private clinic somewhere so was assigned to whomever. She also said she's had experience working with kids on the autism spectrum so maybe she's trying to incorporate something she used there. I don't know. DS is not on the spectrum - obsession with construction equipment notwithstanding .

When we go again after Thanksgiving, I'll emphasize that DS needs her to explain her objectives to him. She also talks pretty fast so maybe if she slows down that will help too.

I'm glad to hear that her methods seem odd to others too. I know a few parents aren't pleased with her and have pulled their preschoolers from her therapy. It can be done but the paperwork is a PITA because she's the one who does the evaluations for the IEP which we need to keep in place so our insurance will continue to pay for the private therapy.

She wrote very poor goals for DS's initial IEP in February which I made her revise in June and should be modified again. I'm not too concerned as I think at this point the private therapy is making more of a difference than her work and, fingers crossed, we'll be moving in the spring to a different school district which is better funded and well regarded.

This has all been very helpful! Thanks!