Statement question and SS places.

[Voidka]

It feels like we have taken another million steps back with DS's school place and I am losing the strength to be honest. He is 4 and in reception.

I have started to consider that its just not going to work and have this morning rung round 3 of the local SS. They are all full and cannot accept him until next September.

So I wonder if anyone can tell me what might happen if I apply for a SA? Will he have to leave the school he is in now and wait at home for a place in September. Its not that the place is terrible, and his TA is lovely but he is not getting anything from it and is becoming more and more uncooperative and distressed.

I am a bit confused by what you are asking.

if I read it rightly, your ds does not have a statement?

if you apply for SA, then your ds stays where he is (unless you actively choose to withdraw him) while his needs are assessed. along the way, if the LA deem it appropriate (and you can ask for it to be considered too) he will get referred to the SN schol placement panel (might be called somethin else in your area - essentially a delaying tactic, though).

the panel will meet and say yes/no for SN school.

if no, and you want a SN school, you can appeal the decision.

Sorry, I think I am a bit confused about what I am asking

DS doesnt have a statement. We are in Nottinghamshire and so they are very difficult to get unless you are applying for a special school. So to apply for one I am going to have to show why his current school place isnt working (which wont be hard).

I suppose what I am trying to say is that if I apply for a statement and show why his place isnt working he isnt going to be able to stay at his current school for the year until a place at SN School becomes available in September. Or is he?

And if he cant, what are my options. if anyone can answer that.

Sorry if I am not making much sense. I am so upset at the moment I am sat in tears and I dont know where to go.

Yes, your ds can stay at his school, if that is what you want for him, while the statementing process is underway.

is the school likely to back you up in your request? or are they likely to try to claim all is well and they are meeting his needs?

I am sorry you are having a hard time - it is so stressful, and the system doens't help at all.

you say in your OP your ds has a TA - is that just for him? or the class TA who ends up helping him?

if he got a statement, which addressed his needs, would you want him to stay in ms or go to a SN school?

sorry, lots of questions, but the main thing that leaps out at me is that your LA cannot apply blanket policies like 'only need statement for SN school' - this is illegal. a statement is a document which lists the needs of the child - it is not down to whether they are in Sn school or ms school.

one hting that might happen is that you end up with a statement which keeps him in ms - this can be cheaper for LAs. woudl you be happy with this?

generally if there's no space, there's no space and as silverfrog said you have to go through the LEA and statementing, by which time you'll be close to next september anyway. Unless you have a very good LEA who would consider a move and then do all the paperwork your best bet is to either take him out which you could do without too much trouble (he's not 5 till feb iirc?) until easter or HE or try to make the placement work. Is there anything you feel the school could/should be doing? Have you applied for SA, generally a child stays where they are until it's completed?

your ds does not have to be in school until the term after he turns 5, btw. you can keep him at home until then, if you want to.

my dd1 did not go to school full time until after she was 5, for a variety of reasons.

she was part itme at a ASD pre-school when she was 4, and went full time (still pre-school) as she turned 5. she then went on to fulltime SN school as we got her statement (we wanted a particular type of school for her, and had to threaten tribunal). we did do some home programmes with her (ABA) during her time at home.

sorry xposts, ds2 was wanting attention LEAs are quite happy to have children in failing placements until statement is in place, and generally you want the school to say they can't meet his needs, carries much more weight than if you say it, so trying to work with the school if they are half decent can benefit you and provide evidence that you need.

He has a 1-2-1 TA who is just for him. The school will be very supportive as they seem to be more negative than I am, however I think the Ed Psych and his inclusion worker would be against it.

I dont know if this school would work even with a statement as he already gets full time support, but he really isnt coping with socialising with other children. According to his school diary (which his lovely TA fills in very well) he has spent the last 2 days refusing to do anything, getting distressed and stimming.

He isnt in school full time, was only going 9-1 but its been agreed to cut it down to 9-12.30 as he isnt safe by himself at lunchtime.

why do you think the Ed Psych would be against it?

it would be fantastic if the school backed you and said it could not meet his needs - this is the ultimate prize.

it would probably be best if you kicked off the statementing process - this take s aminimum of 6 months, so it would be the end of the academic year before anything happens anyway (unless you want ot withdraw him). you can do this yourself, and it is better if you do so - you have better rights of appeal as a parent making the assessment.

have a look at the IPSEA website - there are model letters on there for SA applications. and keep asking on here - there is bound to be someone else going through statementing.

SOS!SEN is another website to have a look at, I believe.

all you can do is try Voidka, the ed psych may agree, especially if school are backing what you say officially. May be a good idea to start photocopying his home school book though, they have been known to go missing during the SA process, start getting a paper trail going and google ipsea, sossen and ace as silverfrog suggests.

oh yes.

def keep copies of home/school book.

and put in writing (just to 'clarify') anything that is said to you at beginning/end of school day re: behaviour, incidents, stimming, inability of the school to cope etc.

you need a good, strong paper trail, incase they jump ship at any point and say it is all ok.

I have all the sheets already. I make a copy every evening for my own records. I have been on this board long enough to know that they do have a habit of going walkabout :)

I think the change for the worse has come since they have been pushing interaction with other children. His IEP is all social based and he isnt meeting any of those targets either.

I just wanted this to work so badly and it seems like it goes okay for a couple of days then its worse than ever.

do you think they could redo his targets to back off a little if the pressure is too much? Are they getting outside advice/support?

They have help from the Inclusion service. She comes in once a week and she has loads of great ideas, but I worry that they are not working because he cant get passed spending any time with even one other child.

His IEP targets are To say hello to the teacher, Say hello to three familiar children and sit with another child at lunchtime. He isnt meeting any of those at all. We have his review meeting in 10 days time where everyone will get together and discuss how its going and where we go from here.

you need to apply for a statement yourself with nottingham....(been there done that) stick to your guns and prepare for war (sorry just saying as it is in notts) if you need any help pm me, (i'm not liked by notts lea) they know me well lol

is the meeting going to be minuted, it would certainly be useful. Meanwhile go and have a look at the ss so you have an idea of what you want at the end of the process.

I have asked the Teacher for a meeting and we are going to meet on Monday. I am going to lay everything out for her and tell her that I want to apply for a SA.

DH was going to take our own minutes for the meeting, is that okay or does it n eed to be someone else?

I have some idea of the SS in the area, and there is a particular one I feel that DS would benefit from, but its a independent one and I know the LA will be loathed to put him into it.

Is 5 early for SS?

no, some of the dcs at dd3's ss have been there since 2.6, dd3 started this september in y1, so 5. No reason why dh can't do it, just be aware they may well tell you you won't get a statement, fairly common practice to do that.

dd1 went into an independent, highly specialised SN school at 5. she was in an independent SN pre-school before that (LA funded)

agree with Ninja, though - they will probably tell you it is not possible. it is rare to get a statement, and a place at a SN school without disagreement from the LA. the fight is harder if it is an independent school you are after, but not impossible.
you need to prove that the other schools (whether ms or sn) are unable to meet his needs. is there anything in particular about that school which means it is better suited to your ds?

Before I put DS's application in for MS I visited 3 SS and Its just the one I liked best, and my instincts told me DS would be happiest in . Maybe I should think about it more and try and work out where is best for him if the MS place is going to break down.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with your gut feel on a schol. it is what we are always advised to look for - try to find a school where you think your dc would fit in and be happy.

BUT, to convinvce an LA, especially if you are talking about a placement at an independent school, then you have to prove that the LA ms schools, and the LA SN schools do not meet his needs. all the LA have to provide is a suitable educaiton, not the best one. and you may well find that they whistle up a free place at the LA SN school if you start talking about an independent placement.

we got lucky with dd1 - the locl SN school was oversubscribed, and due to timings we kept missing placement panel. couple that with the fact we could prove progress in the SN school we had chosen, vs no progress in the system used in the state SN school, and we just squeaked through. but it was still quite a fight.

you need ot do your research, and put together your case. aim for what you think will suit your ds best, by all means. it is what we all do. but be prepared for the LA arguments against it.