Am I right to be feeling suspicious or have I just finally become too paranoid? (long)

[moosemama]

So, dh and I are dotting the I's and crossing the T's on our SA request this week and should then be emailing it to the SENCO and Inclusion Leader for comments before it goes off to the LA.

At ds's IEP review last week, both the aforementioned people asked what I wanted to happen next/where I wanted things to go from here and then exchanged a meaningful look when I said I was absolutely still intending to go for SA and that imo ds needs a statement before secondary applications go in next September, therefore time is running out / potentially we have already left it too late for us to apply (basically because I allowed them to stonewall me). (The Inclusion Leader did nod in agreement to the timescale statement though.)

Since then I have had lots - and I mean lots - of positive feedback about how well ds1 is doing at school, how he can suddenly sit down and get on with his work without being prompted every two minutes, how he is completing decent chunks of class and written work, organising himself better and even being creative etc.

Last week, one of his maths teachers came to see me after school to tell me how well he'd done in a particular lesson. She then went on about how fond she was of him and how she loves teaching him etc etc and even had tears in her eyes - which obviously I did think was a bit odd. She told me about the piece of work he'd produced in class that day and how it involved a lot of fine motor work, which she had physically helped him with, but how he had also managed to do some on his own and she was very pleased with him. She also told me that he was on the second to top table in class 'on merit' and deserves to be in the top group for maths, despite not believing it himself. At the time, the conversation was very odd and I got the feeling she was trying to tell me something, but I wasn't quite getting what it was. The next day, said piece of work appeared in his home folder, with a note to me about how well he'd done. I looked at it, commented and put it back in his folder, where it has stayed ever since, until I took it out this morning. Now, I don't understand why, if it such a top-notch piece of work, they don't want it kept in his maths book along with all his other work - except, she said she had helped him considerably with some of it - in which case, in truth, it wasn't actually all his own work, was it? So would be an unfair example of what he is genuinely capable of producing.

For context, his class teacher also came up to me again and again over the past week to tell me how well he's done at different things. This isn't something that has ever happened before.

Today he has come home from school and told us that he is being taken out of guided reading three times a week to attend a group with some other children doing extra maths with a TA. (As an aside, the reason he only told us about this because his long-term bully has also been placed in the group and has taken the opportunity to sit next to, insult and poke/needle him etc.) Nothing was said to me about this group during the conversation with his maths teacher last week, despite the fact he had just started in the group and would in fact have attended his first group the day before and would have been attending his second session the next day. To me, him being put in a group for regular extra tuition, along with other pupils, who I happen to know are the less able children in his maths group, seems to contradict what she told me about him doing really well and being sat on the second to top table 'on merit'.

Now, is it me, or is it not just a tad suspicious that the very week my SA request is supposed to going to the LA, all of a sudden I am being told that my ds is doing fantastically well in all areas and they are really happy with him and he has suddenly started getting extra small-group support that I am completely unaware of, despite having had an IEP review and several adhoc meetings with his teachers that very week?

To me it looks like they are gearing up to tell the LA that they already have all the support ds needs in place, that he is doing well and progressing and therefore in their opinion does not need a statement.

There's two ways of looking at that:

a) its just delaying tactics so that we get turned down on the first request, thus delaying the implementation of any potential statement until he is well into year 6 and therefore they won't have to spend too much of their budget on him
or
b) they never had any intention of supporting our request, they don't want him to have a statement and therefore are doing everything in their power to make it look like he doesn't need one at the moment, but lord knows what will happen to any support he is getting now, once the SA request has been refused a couple of times.

I am now worrying that my parental advice isn't strong enough and I've been an idiot to trust them to support our application as they said they would. I feel like I need to go back to the drawing board with it to make up for their potential smokescreen, but that would mean delaying sending it for at least another week, as I have the week from hell this week as it is.

I just find it hard to accept that ds is suddenly able to do all the things his other teachers have despaired about because he was completely unable to do them - coincidentally, just when the SA request is due to be sent. Last years' teachers were on and on at me constantly about how he couldn't even manage to write the date at the top of the page, let alone start and get on with his work unassisted and how they simply did not have the time to give him the level of support he needed, as he basically needed an adult sitting with him constantly to keep him focussed. We have exercise book, after exercise book of blank pages from the last two school years which back this up. Could it possibly be that he could turn around this much in just half a term, basically because he has more switched on - but just as under-resourced - teachers this year?

So, am I just being completely paranoid now and should just take it at face value and be pleased that ds appears to be doing well and getting lots of support - or does something about all this ring warning bells?

Don't take it at face value - ime, your second scenario is likely to be the accurate one! Our school told me that they would not make a request for a SA but would support me if I chose to do so. Their support was about as useful as a chocolate teapot...
Even if your son is getting support at his current school and is coping well, there is no guarantee that he would get support once he moves to secondary school without a statement.

Well imo I don't think you're paranoid - these events are too coincidental.

And we have had a very similar situation too - we are appealing ds's statement, and lo and behold since the appeal went in, the school are at pains to tell us how brilliantly ds is doing, how he is indistinguishable from the rest of the class, how well he does without support because they don't provide any and how he doesn't need ABA.

Like you, I am made to feel that there is something wrong with me that I am not thrilled about the amazing progress ds has seemingly made. Whereas it is because I - and you - know that this simply isn't the case.

It wouldn't have occured to me before I entered the world of SN/SEN that schools and local authorities would be in collusion with each other, and there would be anything like the underhand behaviour, lies and backstabbing. I have to admit I used to read threads on this board and think this couldn't be the case, the posters must be mistaken, schools wouldn't do that would they.

This process is embittering, but sadly seems to be the norm. Also the line that you won't get a statement - we got this from ds's nursery, from our early years outreach, and from the paediatrician.

Anyway, the good news for you is that you have some very strong evidence to disprove this bullshit they are coming up with - the two years worth of exercise books, the two years of comments from his previous teachers. Note of all this down so you can include it in your SA parental report. And use the maths group thing as an example too.

Remember that you know him better than anyone.

The thing I just cannot understand is why schools are so reluctant to support parents - surely it would be in their interests to get support for children with extra needs

Presumably you're applying for SA rather than the school?

We have gone from very little help, to quite a fair amount. She now has home/school book, sensory bag, pen profile and art group just for her. While I like the fact she is getting what she needs, it's all come about since they found out I was going for SA and that the ed phys is coming in next month.

Dd2 school however, have had everything in place from day one.

I'm aware many posters have had bad experiences with schools. At the same tme, it is possible they know for statement the la will expect child to have had extensive school support but still need more help in order to progress.

So saying he has massive potential when well supported could be an attempt to shaft you... Or could be the opposite

I also think its very coincidental and not dissimilar to what has happened to some people I know. Parental advice is a very small part of the overall documentation the LEA look at.

Sorry to say this Moose but I sadly think the scenario b you outlined is far more likely.

No statement to my mind - no support of any long term value particularly in secondary school primarily because SA plus is not legally binding and the goalposts are always moving. Its all too easy for such support to be withdrawn or curtailed.

In such circs I would just put in your request to the LEA directly and as soon as you're happy with your own wording on this document. It is only when the LEA actually receive it does that clock start ticking on them making a decision. If it goes to the SENCO and inclusion person it may take both of them some weeks to actually respond to it thereby causing yet more delays.

Thank you all for wading through my massive post. Apologies for the length, I just needed to get it down before heading to bed last night, as otherwise I'd have forgotten something relevant.

LaydeeC, when we told them we wanted to go for a statement the then SENCO tried to spin the whole, you won't get one because he's not bad enough and has made progress line, then the - he needs to be x number of years ahead line and only once I said I would have the LEA for blanket policies and go to tribunal if necessary did she say 'of course we will support your application, in fact we will apply'. I told her I wanted to apply myself and she said it was a bad idea as the LEA don't give statements to parental requests! I stuck to my guns and said I would put in the request.

She was only a temporary SENCO and very obstructive. The new SENCO is lovely and to be fair, has listened to and acted on every single one of my concerns as well as acting as a really good point of contact. If I contact her, I know whatever it is will be dealt with immediately.

The thing is, she has never said the school would support my application, just that if that's what I wanted to do they would prepare their evidence and I'm sure its not an oversight that's she's never actually said it, she is a very intelligent and highly considered lady.

I stated at the IEP review that ds needs a statement before secondary because he simply won't cope without one and pointed out that the inclusion team themselves have said as much and the inclusion leader nodded in agreement again - so they know why I am applying now and that I can't leave it any later.

Even if it went straight through with no problems it wouldn't be through till the end of this year, so at most ds would cost them 1 year's support, although its more likely that there will be refusals, problems and hold ups so in reality they probably won't have to pay out for more than a term or two - if that. That's why it makes me so that they are being like this.

Bialy, yes, thank heavens I'm the type of parent that keeps everything. I am going to go through today and put in more evidence of blank pages, unreadable work etc, but I think all the school will then do is supply the LA with more recent work that has been done 'with help' such as the one the teacher gave me last week. Something tells me that she thinks they are shafting us and is upset about it and that's why she gave me that piece of work - so the school can't use it as evidence of his progress/achievement. She was definitely rattled and upset about something, which is really odd considering she was supposed to be giving me positive feedback. It was a very strange conversation indeed.

Maria, we have actually discussed the need for them to prove that they have put in lots of support but that he needs more to progress and achieve appropriately. At the beginning of the year they told me the inclusion teacher was going to be sitting with him 1:1 during maths once a week so that we'd have a comparison of his work, with and without 1:1, but this never happened, instead she came and sat in for a few weeks and just observed him from the back of the class. She reported that the teacher seemed to be pretty much doing most of the work for him, rather than supporting his learning - oddly the penny only dropped last night about what that actually meant. The work they have as examples for the LA from this year, showing great progress and achievement, isn't actually his work at all!

I asked over and over last year for them to allocate some TA time to him, because he wasn't coping and frankly neither were his teachers. His class teacher was constantly on at me about how she couldn't be expected to support his needs 'as I have 30 other children to teach as well you know' and how he wouldn't work without 1:1, but I was stonewalled every time.

Then suddenly, last week, since I said I was sending the request in this week, his teachers have been with working him a lot omore 1:1 and we are being told he is producing fantastic both on his own and with help. This would be a good thing if it was going to prove that he can only work with assistance - but not if the fantastic work he's producing a) isn't his own work - its the teachers and b) isn't logged as having been done with 1:1.

I have set aside today to overhaul my parental advice and cram in more evidence and have decided to send it without emailing it to the SENCO or Inclusion Leader, not because they might delay it, but because I'm not sure I trust their motivation for any advice they might give and also it will give the school a good idea of what they are fighting, so to speak.

Hi Moosemama,

re your comment:-
"I have set aside today to overhaul my parental advice and cram in more evidence and have decided to send it without emailing it to the SENCO or Inclusion Leader, not because they might delay it, but because I'm not sure I trust their motivation for any advice they might give and also it will give the school a good idea of what they are fighting, so to speak".

A wise decision on your part re the above. FWIW I'd also think they would also cause delays as well and stonewall you. I would not trust them to do the right thing.

Keep parental advice to the point; they are not interested in reading reams of papers. More to the point, they don't have neither the time or the inclination and will likely only skim read it.

The LEA will ask school for a report only once they agree to actually assess; its the persuading them to assess in the first place that is the first hurdle here. I have a nasty feeling your app will be rejected but you must must appeal their crass decision.

I am just glad you never believed this former SENCO (but how many people believed her nonsense).

I have a feeling it will be rejected as well Attila and the more I find out about our LA, the less I am optimistic of a decent outcome.

Quick question. If/when it is rejected, what do I have to do to get the to reconsider. Can I just rejig my submission and reapply straight away and am I right in thinking that if they then refuse, the only way to get them to assess would be via a tribunal?

I did a one page summary, bullet pointed, of my son's key issues and the key historical interventions (or lack of) to date together with his school measured NC levels.

Yes I sent in lots more, but it was the summary page that swung the lea to award him a statement - that 1 pager is easily photocopied and handed out in a meeting or skim read by the assessor's manager etc. I know people found it handy to refer to.

Do a summary sheet, keep copies of any supporting evidence you send in, and yes send it straight to the organ grinder so the monkeys can't interfere ; )

It's sad that we have to be so cynical, but I wish I could tell you you didn't need to be. You can't delay as the secondary transition is awful for kids without support that need it.

Thank you - that's a really good idea bochead. I will definitely steal that idea!

I'll send in the whole report (they supply a 9 page form to be completed, but it says you are enouraged to write more and mine is up to 16 pages plus attachments/appendices so far) with attachments, but attach a concise summary page to the front with references to the most important evidence.

Actually, I think I'll get on to typing the summary now, as it might help me to focus on the vital stuff instead of getting bogged down in the detail.

First though - breakfast!

Hi Moosemama

Have just seen this from you:-

"Quick question. If/when it is rejected, what do I have to do to get the to reconsider. Can I just rejig my submission and reapply straight away and am I right in thinking that if they then refuse, the only way to get them to assess would be via a tribunal?"

You can ask for it to be reconsidered straight away (we got turned down twice. In our case the LEA backed down before it went to Tribunal due to sheer weight of evidence all saying the DS needs statementing). Tribunal is another option at this stage if the LEA won't budge. Use IPSEA's refusal to assess pack if necessary.

DS is fortunate to have the support he has via his statement because apart from anything else his legal rights are protected. There are others in his and other years who certainly could do with a Statement and who don't have one for whatever reasons.

I can heartily concur with bochead's comment as detailed below:-
"You can't delay as the secondary transition is awful for kids without support that need it".

Thanks Attila.

I've been on it all day, busy scanning his class and homework for evidence and found some corkers that I'd forgotten about, but which I feel will be quite powerful evidence.

I love bochead's idea of a summary page and am going to link to my strongest evidence direct from that front page and make it as easy on them as possible. No way I'm going to get it finished today - I've a meeting at the school to get to in an hour, but I feel like I know where I'm going with it now and what I have left to do at least.

Have my brain scan in the morning, so can't get onto first thing, but will come back, have a large coffee and get stuck back into straight away afterwards.

Asked this morning if I could see his teacher this afternoon about a problem with his old bully, but didn't actually say why I needed to see her. Interestingly both his teacher and the other senior teacher from his year were there and immediately started being defensive, before I'd even said what it was about. They seemed very relieved when I told them why I was there, so lord knows what they thought I was going to say!

Hi Moose, just seen this and you've had some good advice. Will the inclusion leader support your request? Our autism advisory teachers, who I think are the equivalent, were really supportive of my application back in the mists of time, and their recommendations were given more weight than the schools. In fact the statement was taken almost word for word from their report, much more so than the EP's, even. This may vary tremendously from LA to LA, of course.

What I meant to say was good luck for tomorrow. I missed you on the Friday night thread, but did pick up on your scan later on.

School are incredibly manipulative in primary as they have to fund all the experts coming in to make the assessments. Two people I know were refused SAs by the school who said they were doing very well. Both are in special school now for seniors. One is the lowest the school has ever had the other is reasonably near the top of a MLD school were many of the pupils can just about read or write their own names.

Keep fighting only you will be able to achieve what you want don't rely on the school.

Hi Ellen, the inclusion leader did give me the impression she was supporting the application early on. She even came round to the house and spent two and a half hours explaining the process and telling me about other applications for similar children that had been successful and what they'd done to get them through. She was also instrumental in kicking the school up the backside to sort out the fact that there was absolutely nothing in ds's SEN file when the new SENCO went to check what evidence of support they had and has since worked with both them and us to build a new and complete record for him.

Just recently though, she seems to have backed off and I only really get to speak to her at school meetings, where obviously its all 'party line' stuff. I was also worried by a few knowing looks between her and the SENCO at the last meeting and the fact that she hadn't trialled 1:1 with ds as I was told she was going to, but instead sat in and observed several lessons.

I don't know, I think my suspicions have gone into overdrive and I'm finding hard to trust anyone with this at the moment.

Thanks for the good luck wishes for tomorrow. I am ridiculously nervous, well in fact down right scared about it this time, as not only do I know what to expect, its going to be much longer than the last one and I am claustrophobic.

I can't face doing any more on it tonight, think I just need to have a long bath and get to bed early, as I have to be at the hospital for 7.30 am!

Daisysue2, thank you. I will definitely keep on fighting. Going through all his schoolwork etc today has given me renewed determination to make sure I've done everything in my power to make sure my ds is support to achieve his full potential and not just scrape by with whatever arbritrary level the school deem to be acceptable.

Big words, I know - I just hope I'm up to the job.