Is my child ODD or just naughty?

[2outof3aintbad]

I've recently read about ODD. I read the checklist and apart from saying yes to 4, I could say yes to all 8! I have 3 children (one who is now an adult) and the 2 are well behaved loving children. My girl with the behaviour has always been difficult and now at 12 is getting worse. I am at a point where I'm almost ready to roll over and submit. I'm not a pushover, there are consequences to behaviour but nothing seems to make a difference. But how do I know if this is just her, or if its something more? Her father is very similar. Have read it can be a genetic thing. Not sure if I should look for a diagnoses or just keep plugging away. Am just so worried about her future and what it will bring if this 'attitude' continues. Any advice? (btw, have not lived with her father since she was 2 so dont think she is copying behaviours from him)

Just thought i would add an example of one day in my week.
We had been out for the day. all had a lovely time. within 5 mins of being home she was bored. big row started which went on and on and ended with her saying " i just want to kill u. i want to get a knife and stick it in your chest!" i know she doesnt mean this. then she left the room. came back grabbing her head saying "why do i say these things. i want to b good" this part was the scary bit for me. she doesnt always issue death threats but this is from a child who the year before nursed an exhausted bird for two days and cried cos she had to release it. she can b so lovely then in an instant, really horrible. plus all the ODD ways. Ill try and post a link.....

DD2 here.
Mum thought I could have a go at talking to you.
I have ODD (Also AS, SPD, ADHD, Dyslexia).
I does get better, I used to feel like that all of the time, all I wanted was to be good and be like everyone else, but it seemed no matter what I did, I couldn't be like that. I didn't mean it when I was rude or agressive, it just sort of came out. It's a bit like the week before your period and you're having a row and all the time this stuff is coming out of your mouth and inside your head you're saying why don't you just stop, but the mouth bit just keeps going. Sorry I know that's not a brilliant analogy but it's all I can think of.
Anyway. We did very small targets and charts about what is acceptable and not acceptable behaviours. We started of with be kind. That somehow works better than be polite. So, Mum would say be kind from 9 until 12. Rewards started at the end of the day and went on from there. It's now weekly. (I'm 15). We have also learned to 'pick our battles' and to 'praise the positive'. I do things that drive mum nuts, but she says in the great big scheme of things they don't really matter, so we don't fight about my bedroom being a bit untidy, knickers on the floor and stuff. She won't put up with rude or agressive behaviour though, fair enough. So, rudeness is a small but easily coped with punishment. Sent to room to calm down, back and discuss what and why something happened, apology. Done, over with. Agression is a loss of pocket money, a grounding, a loss of facebook.

Mum does a what would you do if it were your child thing, that makes me think a lot and then we come to an agreement.
There is still shouting in the house, but not as much as there was a few years ago. Mum and I found what works for us. Hope this helps.

thanks for your reply dawndonna, It's great to hear from someone who maybe going through the same thing and understands it from the childs point of view. I totally get your analogy. Been there myself when PMT strikes!
The trouble thing I've found is that at the time of an event, It doesnt matter what punishment I meter out, grounding, loss of ipod etc. Nothing calms her till she has had enough. I send her to her room then she spends the next up to an hour shouting down. which then increases the length of stay and of course its all my fault. I really try talking and explaining things to her when she is in the right frame of mind and she seems to get it and accept what I'm saying till it all kicks off again. I'm quick to praise when she does something good. I worry more because of already having 22 years of parenting under my belt I'm emotionally exhausted.
This is why I'm now thinking I need professional help with her. If i wasnt so strong I would of crumpled already.
How did your mum go about finding help and a diagnoses for you? Is it a very long process? and what sort of help is there?

I was diagnosed when I was 7. My twin sister has AS. So does one of my brothers and my Dad. It wasn't too much trouble for us, but that's because Mum knew what was going on, her Dad had AS too. However, I'm the only one that has the co-morbids. She just went to the GP with a diary of events at school and home and asked for a referral.
As for extending the time in the bedroom, I'm sorry, but it doesn't work. I shout and bang around, but as Mum says, I'm just best to get on with it. If I break anything, I have to replace it, so I soon learnt not to. What we do, is Mum used to set a timer and then come and see me. Now she waits until it's quiet, knocks and asks if I'm ready to talk. If I'm not, she'll come back.

Sometimes, I can't tell her what's in my head, but that's okay, she'll put her side and let me take time to process things. I have a pen and paper by my bed so that I can write or draw things that I can't get out with words. Sometimes that works. She always starts with asking how I'm feeling. That makes me feel better because it's not shouting and it makes me feel like even though I've messed up she still cares.

I have a big brother of 27 (NT) so Mum has a good few years of practice too!

ive just had a adhd diagnoses for my ds,it took 3 years from the first day i took him to our gp,so that should be the 1st thing you do,he will then refer you on,this is all time consuming!! i had 5 referals altogether,4 of them said there is nothing wrong,ive just got a willful child....but we got there in the end,
our ds is aggressive in both school and home,he has NO empathy....and thats dam well hard.
they have told me hes mild,i am now waiting for yet another assessment to see how mild he is,as his connors 3 report came back worse then mild!
i dont get it all really,
its a long road,its a stressful road,but you will get an answer in the end xxx

Thanks again dawn.. I'll definitely start a diary and book an appointment to the doctors. Your mum must be an angel. The trouble is now I've lost the will (which is totally down to me) I really try and stay calm but it is difficult. I think getting a diagnosis will help. I hope I can find the patience she needs soon. I know me getting angry too doesnt help. but like you said in your first reply, You hear yourself and want to stop and cant! Thats what I'm like now because I'm at the end of my tether. I need to work hard as much as my girl, I know that.

I'm worried too crazygal that i will be told she is just playing up or its hormones! A good thing is she is only like this with mainly me and her sisters, she can have a go at her nan too but not so much. On the not so good side, because she controls it will the doctors take me seriously? I'm not sure but I'm going to try.
Good luck with you son. I hope you too get all the help you need. xx

they didnt take me serious when i 1st seen them!!! they said hes 4,get out and enjoy your day,and thats just what i did,i told the teacher hes fine,he just 4 and "normal" but weeks later the school called me in again,i took him again,and same again!!! get out hes 5 hes "normal",threw all this i struggled with him,but hes my only one and thought this is how kids are!
each appointment took weeks and weeks to come threw,then 6mnths wait to see the pead each time :(
i suffered terrible depression and terrible anger!
i got to the point were i didnt like my son anymore
i got help for myself to help calm me down some hypno,and its worked,i also got a type of supernanny in to help and guide us,it was hard to hear were we were going wrong,she just tweek our way around abit.but what a help it was,she was amazing!!!

Has your DD always been a handful or is it just recently? If she has been manageable until now it may be something a simple as an hormonal upsurge.

My DS had ADHD which has improved as he grew up, but he was a nightmare from the word go. his sister was completely the opposite tempermentally which made me feel better as I knew it wasn't due to my awful parenting!

hi sneezecake.. she has always been difficult. It has just become worse in the last 6/9 months which i would probably put down to hormones. My problem is I'm just not sure what to do next. my other two girls are fine, not perfect but lovely children most of the time. I dont know if she has always had ODD (if this is what is the problem) but as I'm a strong character i have always dealt with her through the years just thinking she was a handful and as she has always behaved in school and when we are out ive just got on with it. I can remeber when she was 3 i ended up walking away cos she would not go to bed. and was screaming and shouting at the stairgate and nothing i said or did would budge her. this sort of thing has continued but like i said, ive just got on with it.

I think it would be a good idea to make an appointment to talk through your DDs problems with someone at the school. I thought I was just not a good enough parent when I sent DS off to school, thinking ' they will sort him out'. But he was just as awful at school and tried to trip his teacher up (he was 5!). The school, and many after them, organised such things as child psychologist, ed psychologist, family therapy and I didnt see our GP. Maybe this would work for you? If not the GP might cooperate and get the ball rolling. At one point I had a SW but only because I phoned up and begged them to take him into care! She was very helpful and DS was around 12 at the time.

No easy answers, and I hope others with have some practical suggestions, I can only speak from experience.

thanks sneezecake, I'll look into all the options and hope we can sort something.
Lets hope we can all have a quieter future.. xx