Verbal behaviour approach

[Sassyfrassy]

I've been looking at The verbal behaviour approach for my daughter. She is 3 and doesn't speak apart form 3 words but uses makaton to communicate.
The book seems geared towards children with autism and I was wondering if anyone has experience of using the approach with children who do not have autism.

I feel a real need to do something, not just wait and see. The SALT has given the nursery school things to do but has been very vague with us about things to do at home.

It's very structured. We used it with my non-verbal ds1 (who does have autism) and I felt after a certain stage we needed to have better speech (well any) or sign to progress through the levels. Then my son began to hate it so we stopped. I found the ablls very useful though www.difflearn.com/product/Revised_ABLLS_Set/verbal_behavior might be worth checking on eBay for one (different roads for learning is good but it's ££££'s to buy)

Have you tried PECS?

Just went on the PecS course and they were saying it was derived from verbal behaviour Approach, you see.

The thing that got mine going was making her use words instead by offering her choices of food or activities. She wouldn't get what she wanted until she used words.

They use makaton because it works for them - you need to make it work for them to speak.

For Katie we are not sure how much is unwillingness to speak and how much is lack of ability to produce specific sounds. I think I will get the book and see if it might work for us. At least it's not as expensive as so many other books out there. I'd really like to buy it takes two to talk, but it really is a lot of money.

I'd be careful about that realhoueswife unless a child has demonstrated they CAN physically produce words on demand. Ds1 is 12 an unable to produce pretty much any consonants - if we'd insisted on using his voice he'd have given up communicating at all. We accept any communication.

I would carry in with Makaton - if she's using it well you can definitely use it with VB - and research shows it increases

Bloody iPad

Increases speech production.

If you're concerned about verbal dyspraxia have a look at Nancy Kaufman - she used to do distance video consultations
www.kidspeech.com/

Thank you saintlyjimjams,

We also accept signing for communication, it's that or point and shout. I much prefer the signing =)
I've read about verbal dyspraxia, apart from speech all her motor skills are age appropriate though including things like bubble blowing, using a straw and so on. She seems to be a tricky case according to the SALT. So far the salt will only say that Katie seems to have a very specific speech problem but there is a possibility that there could be other issues. At the last meeting Katie had a cold and wasn't too keen so didn't respond well to her name and had an extremely short attention span.

saintlyjimjams - that's what I thought when I was first instructed to do this by the SALT. I didn't want to 'push' dd into speaking. It was hard - but only for a moment - because after a few fairly strict attempts on my part, she used the words she needed to.

It's worth a try - if only to test out whether or not speech is there. Remember it's human nature to follow the path of least resistance, children with SEN are no exception.

Sassy does she imitate or make other vocal sounds? Is it just the production of whole words that she doesn't do?

She can imitate some sounds and she says mum, ddd (dad) and up. She also says bah for no. Other sounds she will try but just can't seem to do. She loves animal noises but seems utterly incapable of saying miaow, it comes out grrhhn instead. I think there is a lack of motivation. The salt who observed her at the nursery said that she was very content watching the other children and copying them but she didn't seem at all bothered about joining in with them.

Sassy, verbal dyspraxia can come without any motor difficulties at all. My DD can blow now, jumps, rides a scooter, catches the ball etc- and has VD.
Can she lick her lips? Can she move tongue from one corner of the mouth to another? Can she lift her tongue in the mouth- as in saying "l" sound? If she can't, it might be indications od VD.
What does SALT say? Does he/she use Nuffield dyspraxia programme in his/her work with your child?

Tbh, I really wouldn't go down"she has no motivation" route. If speech develops normally, then a child will repeat sounds, will say words, etc. As one of the therapists told me, children in this age have no concept of laziness- if they don't do something as basic as speech, then it means they can't do it- due to various medical reasons.

Agree with paribus - sometimes children might not understand the connection between speech and being understood and withholding can help that understanding develop, but speaking is actually a far easier way to be understood than any other way - so if a child can speak they usually will.

My son's verbal dyspraxia is extremely severe, but wasn't officially diagnosed in the UK by a SALT until this year (he's 12). He pretty much cannot produce any speech sounds on demand. Other dyspraxic signs are very slight (he has some motor planning issues) so he can lick lips, pedal a bike, move his tongue on demand (now he can imitate). He just cannot produce speech sounds at all.

And his balance is amazing. When he was little he used to stand 4 storeys up on the bannisters

It's like all his motor bits work (pretty) well, except speech which is a big fat zero.

Interesting Saintly - my dd's the same, it's as though talking is the hardest thing for her to do. She's naturally sociable, so has plenty of motivation, but speech is very slurry. One theory I was given was that there is tension in the jaw because she's not relaxed .

I do notice that she's far worse after a bout of TV. It was suggested that she chews gum to help it.

But there is something to be said for pushing them into talking at first - simply to make the neurophysiological links, if that makes sense.

I'm starting to think I should take her to a good old-fashioned elocution teacher!

Thanks for all the information. I will look into verbal dyspraxia further. She does sign a lot with us, she just doesn't seem to bothered about playing with other children. I have wondered if it is because she isn't sure of how to communicate with them.
The salt has only seen Katie four times. Twice for assessment, once at nursery and once for a follow up. She doesn't really do any work with her and hasn't given us much to do with her either apart from saying to keep going with signing. She has suggested Katie for a place in a speech and language unit at a nearby school for when she starts primary next year, but the places are hotly contested so we can't be sure of her getting one. We are now being handed on to a community salt who wont see us until after christmas and nursery are meant to be doing the main work with Katie.

I just looked at the Kaufman website and the list of signs and symptoms for verbal dyspraxia. A lot of it fits in with Katie. She uses m and d for almost everything with an occasional b. She never ever babbled, is monotone, grunts and points. Her receptive language is age appropriate. I'm going to get on to the salt to discuss this further. She does seem utterly reluctant to diagnose, but perhaps the new one will be better.

I think if there's the ability there there's nothing wrong with doing a bit of withholding. When ds1 gets his communication aid (:happy dance:) in teaching sessions there'll be some withholding, - although they do less of that than many approaches (they start with things he can't already communicate well and so he'll start by using a mix of signs, vocalisation and the communication aid - as I'm the only person to understand a word he says and the vast majority of his signs which aren't very accurate - (another dyspraxia sign I guess) - I'm guessing he'll switch over to the communication aid pretty quickly as he works out that people do understand him using it and it's much faster (important in ds1's world).

We were told to withhold to get accurate speech and it just never worked as he just doesn't have the ability. He actually loves SALT working on speech sounds but in over a year when we started to revisit it intensely hasn't managed to develop anything that is consistent.

What communication aid will you be getting? I've been looking at ipads and the many speech therapy apps you can get for it. We couldn't afford it completely, but will try to apply for a grant to help towards one possibly.

hope my question wasn't offensive or something

Unfortunately the iPad hasn't been a great success for ds1. the apps available are based on dividing symbols into categories which doesn't really work for ds1. They're fine as an alternative to pecs for him but he's moved on from pecs and needs something fast and flexible and with a lot more vocab.

He had a trial of LAMP www.aacandautism.com/lamp-training (35th person in the uk to trial it) and flew with it. He was gutted when the trial finished and he lost the communication aid.

Someone (I have no idea who) - someone incredibly generous - is buying him one. Which is a huge relief as we'd just started funding applications which were not going well and I was resigned to the fact that it was probably going to take 2 years plus (ish) to raise the money.

I'm starting a blog - will put more on there about the different AAC systems and LAMP. He'll have access to a vocab of 6000 words (I think!) and will be delighted to be able to direct me in the car again.

Pecs always worth trying fanjo - I expect the op missed the question.

Best to do it in the way you did it via the workshop otherwise it can end up a bit messy.

Thats why I actually did worry my question might have been insulting, I know some people don't like PECS and others think it's just for people with really low cognitive abilities.

my DD has massive motor planning problems so not sure how successful it will be for her

Pecs was hugely useful to ds1 for years - it's only in the last few years that he's outgrown it really.

Start with big chunky symbols stuck on huge lumps of cardboard (we did - ds1 quickly got to laminate)

she did actually teach herself a bit, I had a card stuck up on the filing cabinet where I keep her pens, she came over to me when i was on the PC and presented me with the card, I hadn't shown her that, I was impressed