Can I ask about language used to describe children with SN? I'm a novice

[HowMuchIsTooMuchDietCoke]

I have a new friend, met through a mutual friend, who has a 10 year old boy who has Aspergers. Out at an event last night someone referred to him as 'an aspy', I haven't heard that term before and was a bit taken aback.

I can remember my MW telling me 'you might get a downs' after my antenatal tests and thought that was an awful way to describe a baby.

Is calling a child with Aspergers an aspy offensive in the same way? If it is an offensive term I will correct people who use that term, I know it will come up in conversation sometimes now because of the new friend in our circle and I don't want her to be upset.

So is it ok or not ok?

Hope you don't mind me posting on the SN boards, I didn't want a flaming on another board if its a stupid question .

I think its always best to err on the side of caution, respect and politeness when referring to others, so I agree with the op. However, when referring to yourself or close relatives etc, you know what is acceptable and what isn't so I guess its down to the individual.

It's used widely amongst people I have known or years with AS themselves of with children with AS. I always think of it as an affectionate term - partly because I have only ever heard it used by people who have some sort of connection to the condition.

I probably wouldn't use it with someone I didn't know.

Saintly Its just that as an outsider (for want of a better word) I can't see the difference between calling someone 'a cripple' or 'a downs' and 'an aspie', if you see what I mean. It's defining someone as a condition rather than an individual and I was always taught that that was rude.

I didn't know there were grey areas where is sometimes ok.

...where it is sometimes ok...

'Still think its an awful way to to talk about someone though, as if they are the condition, not a person.'

It's more demeaning to decide what is and is not acceptable over the heads of the individuals concerned without asking them. I think he feels about it like I do about the term Feminist, He sees the world through an Aspie lens, it colours his perceptions and his responses. He doesn't think of the condition as limiting or something to be ashamed of. It is an integral part of him.
And he thinks being an Aspie is cool.

Fair enough Riverside if he feels fine with the term then it isn't an issue for him. But I guess I just would feel bad using a word that others could deem offensive and Cervix, Mango, insanity and lisad said that in the context I described they would have an issue with it so it certainly isn't clear cut. My personal opinion is that it is rude, particularly when describing someone that she had never met.

I think it depends on the tone. Like calling someone ginger, it can be offensive or a term of endearment. DH has AS and he says "I'm a bit Aspergic" rather than "I'm an Aspie" I say he has Aspergers as I'm not sure if Aspergic is a word

Some feel that if you talk about living 'with Asperger's' you are separating out part of them, something that they value and making it a disability.

Take this website for example - www.aspie.com/ she's been around for years - when I first entered the autism world there was very little written about it - but Liane had published then.

Or Donna Williams who plays with a group called the Aspinauts

www.donnawilliams.net/music.0.html

It's a term that is so commonly used by those on the spectrum that I never think of it as offensive.

She also runs (I think, if not is heavily involved in) this website www.auties.org/ Donna's never really afraid to apply labels though.

DD2 Here.
I really ought to register instead of nicking Mum's name!

Anyway, I'm an Aspie, so are my brother, sister and Dad. Some people don't like it, but we see it as being linked to a wider community.
My nan gets really annoyed with it though, but then, we get annoyed with her but that's a different story!

Aspie village

www.aspievillage.org.uk/

Aspie vision

www.aspievision.co.uk/

Aspie affection

www.aspieaffection.com/

I think the thing is - the word itself was invented by those on the spectrum - it wasn't applied to them by us. So they in a sense have ownership of the word. And the people who started the whole sort of autism culture/neurodiversity movement used the word and made it more mainstream.

Aspie travel

www.aspietravel.com/

Type aspie into google, you get blog after blog and website after website developed by those on the spectrum themselves.

I call my son an auti sometimes. Donna Williams has previously said he's a naughty auti like her. TBH his autism is so much a part of him that it doesn't bother me.

Like Donna I would tend to separate out OCD and anxiety etc - see that as something added, but not the autism really. It defines how his body reacts to the world around him for starters, and he sees the world very differently to me. (I never notice when a lamppost breaks/changes or if someone changes a light fitting).

I guess I just wonder how people not involved in the SN community should understand the subtly of what is ok and what isn't.

Even on Radio2 last week (or maybe the week before??) there was a woman on from a diabetes charity saying the charity doesn't like people being referred to as diabetics, they prefer people with diabetes.

Sounds like what I was trying to say, only better.
DS has no other comorbids, just the AS.

Interesting article

www.donnawilliams.net/ntswhenaword.0.html

That's the key though howmuch - diabetes is a disability separate from the person. Many people with Asperger's see it as something that is part of them and not necessarily a disability. Or if it is then as a disability that comes with good bits as well. Diabetes is nothing other than a PITA (although my SIL describes herself as diabetic).

Saintly I totally get (I think!) what you are saying. But, to someone who has never even heard of the term 'NT', not had any links to any SN communities or anything it is very confusing, do you see what I mean?

Dd2 again.
My Aspieness isn't a disability. My brain is wired differently to yours so as far as you see it it can be disabling. I don't like bright lights, noise some foods. I have trouble with facial expressions, literal interpretations. If things get too much, NTs shout, and stuff, I just go into what you call meltdown, with me, that's just shutting it all out so I can be safe in my head. If I do shout and stuff it's because I'm scared, not angry. I can keep up one of my obsessions for months on end, that's to my advantage. I can see all the tiny things that others miss. But that's me.
My disabilities are my dyslexia, my ODD, my Sensory Processing Disorder, my ADHD. But being an aspie is who I am and I like me.

It's very political anyway howmuch - even with the autism community. If in doubt just stick to with AS, but I wouldn't correct someone who uses it.

When talking about my son I tend to describe him as autistic (he is), but if writing a report I tend to stick to 'with autism'. With is the sort of scientific literature way but Michelle Dawson autismcrisis.blogspot.com/ usually writes using 'autistic' iirc as she doesn't see it as something separate.

I would say my DS has AS, DS is another one who doesn't mind aspie - it wouldn't be his firs phrase of choice, but he doesn't bristle like I do at it, lol

I (obviously!) don't mind it used by older children/young people/adults referring to themselves but I really don't like autie or aspie being used to refer to my ds, who is 5 & way too little to be able to identify with a label in any way. If he choses it when he's oder then I'd have no problem with that.

I have a friend who is involved with ASD/SN activities, as a volunteer not a parent, and she insists on using autie & aspie constantly. I find myself bristling when ever she opens her mouth. I think with her there's an element of 'down with the kidz' iykwim but I found myself increasingly avoiding her.

Don't bristle, tell her you don't like it and tell her how you wish your son to be referred to. Then make sure that she remembers, remind her if she slips.

For me it's like calling "Yo Nigger" across the street to a friend. Totally socially acceptable if the caller and callee are both black african's who have known each other all their lives but incredibly offensive in any other context. It's only to be used in an informal context amongst those who are VERY close family or friends.

Think of your school girl french - any convo where you'd use "vous" instead of "tu" you'd never dream of using "aspie". For me you have to EARN the right to use such a term, either by being one yourself or the mother etc of such a person, same as you would either have to be black or have mixed-race children before calling "yo Nigger", and even then you'd have to know the person so well you could be totally sure you wouldn't cause offence.

This is a new friend so your relationship hasn't reached that level of easy intimacy yet, err on the side of caution until it does. Mums of sen kids have so many battles with schools etc that really it's a bit cruel to make us have to correct well-meaning offensive friends on top of every thing else. Just because people don't tell you doesn't mean they are aren't hurting.

zamzam - someone needs to tell this woman she's not "down wid de yoof dem" but coming across as irritatingly patronising to the point of offending and alienating the very group she wants to help. It'll hurt her to hear it, but she wouldn't volunteer if she didn't care about these kids, so she'll probably appreciate it in the longer term.

"This is a new friend so your relationship hasn't reached that level of easy intimacy yet, err on the side of caution until it does"

Bochead Don't worry, I won't use it, I never would have. I was just surprised to hear another use it.