Banding on SEN statements

[coff33pot]

I am going through proposed statement and waiting for meeting date to go over it.

It does not say anywhere the number of hours as some of you are aware.

I have been told that LAs do not put the total number of hours on a statement anymore. By camhs and PP also DIAL. But they must specify and quantify the amount of help he is getting throughout the statement as in times for SALT etc?

This is obviously condradictory to what I have been told. However even the HT emailed the LA as she had no notification either about what funding wa proposed. And because I advised her that I was having a meeting at some point with the LA she very kindly sent me a copy email from the LA stating that DS was BAND b3 and they would be provided with funding for 25hours LSA.

What is band b3????

I think it's an LA specific thing, coff33pot. I've seen similar from other posters in different LAs, but they all seem to just refer to a system that that LA has set up.

It's bollocks, though. They are not allowed, according to the SEN COP, to have a blanket policy not to specify and quantify provision. They are playing you, assuming that most parents don't know the law so don't know they can argue against this. Be bloody angry and fight this!

Hi coff33pot,

Re your comment:-
"I have been told that LAs do not put the total number of hours on a statement anymore. By camhs and PP also DIAL".

Well they would wouldn't they?!. They've spun you a line; statements still have to be both specified and quantified. If it is not it will need to be rejected by you.

Try and get a hold of one of the charities; SOSSEN, ACE, IPSEA, Network 81 for further advice.

I have been constantly ringing IPSEA today but it just rings forever at the moment but I will keep trying. I did qote the SEN code but I got a rather blank look when I did.

I said the statement is for want of a better word "wishy washy" and that they have merely copied down from the EP report. I was told that the EP would have looked at all these other reports and put in her recommendations within her own. Told them that was rubbish for a start as it was for the SA that her report was done and that was during all the other pead assessments etc so she wouldnt have looked at any of them.

I mentioned that some of the objectives are manageable as they are of IEP stuff really and surely if he met them (ie. sit still for 5 mins which he can on someones lap!) then they could withdraw the statement. Told no the way they do it now is to make the statements less "wooly" and confusing as they have been told to simplify things. what will happen is his objectives would be raised next time at annual review and that they wouldnt withdraw statement...........

I wish to god I had someone to come with me that knew what they were on about..... I dont mind arguing but backup would be handy

Try ringing one of the other charities instead; IPSEA are more often than not engaged.

I hope you won't have to go to Tribunal over it but this LEA are truly acting appallingly here.

Ok guys is there anywhere or any link that I can print off that confirms the actual hours need to be documented? I know the COP says everything should be specified and quantified but it does not actually spell out hours........

I need idiot cards for them

Not that I know, but what, other than hours of provision, could be quantified?

Well ellen they are saying that they dont have to put the hours on. But they need to specify who is going to help as in salt or ot or somesuch and actually state how many hours for. Same for social skills games, group work etc it has to state by the TA or salt and the actual amount of time. Not just x times per week iyswim. I was told that the actual banding should show too so they have to do that.

So they admit half of it but steadfast on the hours side of things.

Actually, here it is, in the SEN COP

8:37 LEAs must make decisions about which actions and provision are appropriate for which pupils on an individual basis. This can only be done by a careful assessment of the pupils? difficulties and consideration of the educational setting in which they may be educated. Provision should normally be quantified (e.g. in terms of hours of provision, staffing arrangements) although there will be cases where some flexibility should be retained in order to meet the changing special educational needs of the child concerned. It will always be necessary for LEAs to monitor, with the school or other setting, the child?s progress towards identified outcomes, however provision is described. LEAs must not, in any circumstances, have blanket policies not to quantify provision.

have a look here may be useful. I'm sure there's more somewhere else, will have a look.

So, although they can decide not to quantify if they have good reason, it has to be on a case by case basis and must not be the norm,

Crossed with Ninja, yes, that says it better!

there's also an ace booklet on getting the statement right that may be useful too.

Hi coff33pot, Just to say my understanding is that the Ipsea helpline is easier to get through to in the evening slot when I have been told there are times when there are very few calls.

Also whilst on here just registered a new appeal with SEND and have received a letter stating they currently receive 300 new appeals a month, that feels like a really big number to me..........wonder when the powers that be will recognise that it would be better to make provision available than have such a high number of appeals?

Don't know where you live in the country so not sure if I live anywhere near you but it sounds that it would be a good idea if parents could support each other at meetings.

Coff33 lives in the back of beyond. Think pasties...

Thank you very much for the info! You lot are great :) I am going to print it off and learn it off by heart as well as stick it under their nose.

That is an amazing amount of appeals tiredof!

If anyone wants to hold my hand I am in cornwall! I will gladly hold someone elses in return :)

I been trying ipsea all day so thanks for the info on ringing in the evenings. Only trouble with that is I have DS in the background and he needs constant eye keeping so I was afraid non of it will sink in. But I have a feeling I will have to try later.

ellen its OGGIES lol

Coff, I'm sure I put case law on either your or Anna's thread. Fing them, print them out and submit them whilst informing that your legal advisor (that'd be me I guess) assured you that they are aware of them but might need reminding.

Coff, you're too far, but do the best you can and keep going. You always have the option of refining and changing your mind. Don't agree anything on the day but you can thank them fir any concessions and tell the either that you will consider and get back or say that you will get advice and get back.

Don't be afraid. Your fear is NOTHING compared to the small child's that you are fighting for if it all goes wrong.

will do star and thanks for the emergency appointment

Yes I think that's the situation a lot of people are in coff33pot and that might be why the lines are so busy in the day but not so busy in the evening, I'm not sure. Hope you get through soon, if it's the actual tribunal that you want support for then maybe they can help with that?

It varies by LA. Ours uses letters A-F with the overall banding depending on the weakest area, but overall funding dependent on individual bands for social/communication, physical and academic.

Evenings are less busy for IPSEA because people are doing the bedtime routine. Especially at 7ish.

Well would you believe it. I just got a phone call from the officer. And in my other thread when I first got the proposed statement I did ask wether this non hours business is to do with the green paper? .......It is.

Been told that because of this green paper they have been told to avoid entering actual funding details or hours. What they have to do is make sure the provision itself totals up to the correct number of hours. So my instinct was correct.........

I then told her that the Green Paper isnt actually out yet.....................

Star I need another appointment lol

They phoned initially to "have a chat". They do agree to go back to panel and discuss rewording the provisions to actually make sure it is in hours/mins instead of "x times a week or x time a day so that it physically shows 25 hours worth of provision?

Was told different LAs to different things but I retorted that ALL LAs are supposed to operate the same under the SEN CODE are they not? deathly silence ensued.....

She did then say she would gladly contact the head and discuss how experienced/trained her TAs are. I think if I hold out I just might get something in there about an adequately or appropriately trained TA. Doubtfull if the hours are going to be forthcoming but not sure.....

Thanks ouryve for that info on the banding. I wonder though if that in itself would be a blanket policy as such seeing as they are separately banding children in terms of need for hours/funding