Can i ask everyone regarding statements

[Claw3]

How many of you applied for a statement without the backing of the school and then once statement was given did not remain at the school or remained at the school?

The reason i ask is can a school who have to be forced to follow recommendations ever be trusted.

Would be interested to hear if this has worked out well for anyone.

Hi Claw. DS2 has a statement which I requested myself, school doubted he would get one. They were named on statement as there were no placements available in a ASD unit which is what he really needed. They didn't do hardly anything they should have which was in the statement and I concentrated my efforts in pushing the LEA to give DS2 a place at the school that I knew was best for him.

DS2 started there in Sept and is the best thing I have ever done, know there may be a few problems along the way but compared to where he was where they were not SEN inclusive it is fab.

Now having to go through same with DS1, doesn't get any easier!

Sorry prob haven't helped! The old school were awful though...

Hi Starfish, its interesting to hear from others, i am beginning to doubt the Statementing process for ds. I feel he could definitely cope in mainstream with the right help and wouldnt really fit in SEN school. He is kind of in the middle i suppose, not really fitting into either.

So i am left with a choice of mainstreams, his 1st school were terrible, staff had no idea of SN's at all, he was punished for his difficulties, bullied and they refused to accept that he even had ASD. 2nd school just as bad, all the staff has some kind of ASD training to different levels, they acknowledge that he has ASD, but feel it has little or no impact on him, so dont follow recommendations, just as bad as the 1st, just in a different way.

I am starting to think that i will never find a school, who will just follow recommendtions, without having an opinion of whether this help is needed. Ds's difficulties are complex and everyone (even me at times) have difficulties understanding them.

I dont see what difference a Statement will make, other than it being legally binding. But who wants to spend the rest of their life in Court.

I am wondering whether it is in ds's best interests to try and work with the school, as least if they agree to put the provision in place i stand half a chance of them actually following it (they have lied etc, etc about his difficulties to cover themselves) but if i try and put that behind me and start again.

Always try and work with the school, however if they are not putting in place the provisions recomended by professionals then you have no options than to look at the alternatives open to you to use.

I would say that you don't have to use the chair of governors of the school, the local government ombudsman or the director of education or even sendist as in saying to them that you "will" use these services, sometimes its another route to suggest that you "may" involve these services which may get them moving.

The reson you have to fight so hard is there is so little teacher training in this area and at the moments and so little funds for heads to send them on courses.

Teachers find in hard enough just doing the day to day and then deal with any extras on top. A bit like us really. So asking them to go the extra mile when they feel stretched to the limit is hard.

A head also can't provide a TA to assist the teacher without funding and they have to account for that funding say what they spent it on why and with what evidence did they base their descision on.

A head of a school or the senco might get criticised for not being able to spend their budget wisely. They are expected to spend the most on children who need the most support physically and academically, social communication comes the last in their list most often as most people in general have no idea of how disabling ASD is as their framework is from the more severe end of the spectrum usually were it can be more visible to them.

I think the tribunal let you down last time.

I also think that you need to feel strong enough to battle. I have to break down the tasks letter, writing and space out when I do them so its not all consuming.

I think give yourself a month of, keep a diary of anything school related though and then see how you feel about the need to go further or if you are happy with the way things are and to leave them at that?

Im not happy with the way things are. As you know i have received a copy of ds's school file and even if he is attending social skill group for example 3 x times a week, it is not being monitored. His SALT programme is crap and hasnt been reviewed 'termly', it hasnt been reviewed at all in a year. I wont bore you with all the details, but the help he is receiving is dreadful.

School are not even following recommendations made by LA experts or recommendations made by the LA in NIL. For the school to follow all the recommendations, including those of independent experts, they would need the resources of a statement.

I was hoping that PP would put pressure on them, we agreed that she would to at least get them to follow LA and LA expert recommendations, so ds at least as some help in place and i have some way of monitoring progress.

I have drafted my response to school regarding school file and they have lied so much, it is going to be very difficult to maintain a relationship with them, once i send this letter as it really does prove their incompetence and its not going to go down well. I can apply for SA at the end of this month, but without the backing of the school, its going to be about proving that they cannot met his needs and it will get ugly.

Then even if ds gets a statement this time round, how can he then remain at this school.

Maybe ask for a multi agency meeting and ask all the professionals to attend with the lea sen officer?

Should also add he is 7 years old and this is already his 2nd school. If i was trying for SN school, i could see the relevance of moving him again, but im not.

As above really, get a meeting, get pp to attend and take the minutes, get it in writing what ths school is doing and then look at your reports that say what they should be doing, bring all this up at the meeting......

Ask the school to get the SEN governor to attend too.

I really hope you will succeed in getting the school to provide the help and support he needs. Really good idea to get everyone together for a meeting, make sure you have support with you.

The thing is there are some schools which are more willing to support children with SEN with or without a statement, sometimes it is clear when schools can't or won't help. If you have a good Head and Senco then I hope they listen and support your DS and you.

Thanks Wassup, i think i will try that route first, then if this fails then apply for SA again.

School are supposed to provide the first 15 hours, i think this might have even increased to 20 hours. Admittedly he wont get the direct input from SALT or OT, but my experience of NHS SALT's and OT's is that they are already over worked and the minute school start claiming 'he is doing fine, no difficulties' they are more than happy to go along with that and play down any difficulties. NHS OT has already told me that their resources are limited and they are only dealing with children with severe physical disabilities. I should imagine NHS SALT will be the same.

So i would have to pay for private SALT and OT anyway (i have seen the way school and previous NHS OT, lied and covered for each other) which PP says the LA would be happy to agree to, if i wanted to do this.

I suppose what i am questioning is whether fighting for the crap provison that is available is worth it. When i started this i thought it was just the school that was incompentent, after seeing the shabby SALT programme provided, its not worth fighting for. All the time i spend on fighting, when i could actually be teaching ds myself the SALT targets etc, is it really worth it.

The importance I think of programmes either OT or SaLT is that it is incorporated into daily life both at home and at acshool?

My message to my son's current school is that I'm not heading for Tribunal in November because I'm unhappy with what THEY are doing but because I believe very strongly that DS NEEDS more resources than the current school budget etc can provide.

e.g SALT @ 5 hours per term direct work with my son(1 hour at present to review and monitor). I've also stated the SALT etc should have expertise and relevant specific training in HFA, as not all SALTS know much about asd when the chips are down.

I've said the TA & school need relevant proper training (a half day intro to asd isn't enough as we all know!).

It feels a less confrontational way of going about it when I know that unlike his 2 previous schools, the current mob are honestly doing their best with the knowledge (not a lot!) and resources they have.

It hasn't soured things as when presented this way they are able to agree without feeling under personal attack iyswim. To be fair to this current school they are planning an hfa/as inset day this year, have found and alphasmart from somewhere etc. Cos they don't feel under attack they are able to agree that his needs are challenging and that with all the funding cuts on the way the only to ring fence the funding for what he needs is to get it into his statement asap.

My son's last school didn't support the statement application and told lies. When he got the statement, despite their lack of support, they got rid of him so I do understand your concerns.

IF the school comes under the heading of "sympathetic but overwhelmed" as opposed to horrid for the sake of it, then I think your application for statement on the grounds that you understand the SCHOOL needs more support to help your son then you'll be OK.

Wassup, ind SALT reccommended that ds's SALT programme be delivered by a SALT. Then i saw the programme, it could be delivered by a monkey! So for starters ds needs a comprehensive SALT programme.

OT recommended that ds would need direct input from NHS OT every 2 weeks and that she should devise a programme to be implemented by staff daily after they had received training from the OT. So ds needs a programme for starters, before they can be implemented anywhere.

So you meet with PP tell her you want a meeting that all professionals will attend to go through the note in lieu and in regard to the provision it states your child is getting. If school says we are doing x,y and z - you say can I have the wriiten proof that this is happening ie records , evaluated IEPS. If not why is it not happening?

Get PP to come in support, take notes - they are great at that usually and at raising any points you forgot to or feel to nervous to broach.

Bochead, yes i agree that would be the path to take and the path i would take, but school are saying they are already providing for ds and his needs and claiming to have things in place which do not exist.

They are claiming that ds is meeting targets of non existance programmes, so in order to prove that ds isnt meeting targets or making progress with the 'help' that is already in place, i need to prove that school have not been monitoring progress and these programmes do not exist, which in a nut shell, is proving that school in fact lied at Tribunal.

I cannot think of a 'nice' way of doing it.

Wassup, i met with PP last week and we went through everything and she is going to arrange a meeting with school. I am decided now, thanks for your help, i will try the working in partnership with school approach first. If it fails, i will then have to take the other route.

Invite the SEN governor to the meeting as well to add weight to the meeting sorting the issues out.

Will do Wassup, i really would like to try and settle this amicably, or at least without too much hostility!