So is Autism a mental disablity or developmental disorder??

[lisad123]

Im on the developmental disorder but someone on another thread swears blind its a mental disorder.
So what do we think?

Ah LIsa and you people with only 2 ASD kids how under qualified you are you need three: go on Lisa, get breeding! I am sure you could borrow one (from ME) if necessary....

developmental disability with likelihood of additional MH comorbids: but developmental does not exclude the old label of 'mental disability' becuase that is the old name given to LD rather than MH. Sounds as if someone ahs their teminology mixed up.

'What would make huge sense to me would be a more quantitative evaluation of disabilities. So you could be described as ASD, but you would also need a descriptor of where the problems really lie, so perhaps a score for Social, Communication, Obsession.....if you could add sensitivity and IQ perhaps that would help too?
'

That's what we are gardually moving towards, at university now we say autisms ratehr than autism: it will be an umbrella dx with differential add ons- a similar term is cancer, from that so many other diagnoses with wildly different prognosis emerge. It's a sub heading that vaguely indicates mechanism (eg developmental disorder with some social variability) but not much more- or at least it will be that.

Terminology matters because chidlren who hear it from parents wield it like an axe of my ds1 (AS, attends specialist AS ? HFA Base). As long as it is used to hurt then it matters.

I think it's the 'mental' bit that confuses people though? We tend not to say mentally handicapped but way back when I nursed (about year dot!) we had a mental hospital and mental handicap nurses.

I do think MH nurses should cover ASD to an extent, much like I think MS primary teahcers should becuase it's something that is likely to flagup; adults are dx'd by a psych in our team and she says they tend to appear after a mjor trauma or difficulty- a crisis of some level- and I do wonder how many people with ASd (esp. AS) are in need of a diagnosis and ASD support yet get a prescription of ADs from their GP and a week of for stress. I am not downplaying depression- it almost took dh- but it has a different set of needs attached.

And uni is fine thanks; my own work is a bit non existent atm but I need to make a start again I think.

The rationale is that within autism there are many different presentations all meeting autism criteria (something that PDD-NOS by definition does not do), with a mix of aetiologies as well. AS research carries on we can gradually start to pull apart the causes and types and better understand those individual disorders, 'autism's will just be a header for those different disorders.

So using my kids as an example- ds1 and ds3 both have spectrum disorder severe enough to not be in MS education: ds1 has AS, ds3 HFA. however they are really dissimilar in how that presents and their needs- ds1 is quite classic AS and has aggression issues as well. DS3 is not typical HFA becuase despite a 'HF@ IQ rating his functional level is lower- he has a lot of obsessions, big issues with absences and is unlikely to be independent. but he is also social- he just ticks the inappropriate box by being TOO in your face, indiscriminately huggy etc. According to DSM criteria they both meet the ASD definition and that's right and proper given their shared genetic history (something that is a few generations in our family in terms of ASD) but their needs are not the same and an umbrella term covers that far better than labels that don't quite fit.

We also talk increasingly of a quad of impairments now LOL as well, the fourth sector being sensory. All in it's infancy (uni course is MA in Autism) but i think the quad aspect is especially positive.

The asd 123 thing might be a useful tool for planning services and allocating funding but there needs to be something that operates at an understanding level within the wider populace. 'Autisms' does not require a specific diagnostic knowledge. It's also pertinent that functionality within ASD is not always impaired by the diagnostics alone, eg ds3's absences (not epileptic)- so a descriptive of the type you emntion still would not cever his needs in any real way.

PDD-NOS is not the same as PDDs. The NNOS is a specific term stating that the PDD do not fully fulfil the criteria set for other specific diagnoses. ALL children on the spectrum and with a range of other disorders would fit PDDs as they do inded have a pervasive developmental disorder; it is the NOS bit that matters as a label.

I prefer neurological difference.

yes, I do as well or as ds1's base puts it differnetly wired. Although I have known that to be used as a reason why it's not a disability- personality difference not Sn- which is useless for kids who need sn provision!

Mental Health is how happy or sad a person is and how they are coping with life this is regardless of a diagnosis or not.

peachy, I nearly put "dont you know who i am??" hehe

It's not really is it wasuup?

MH covers that perhaps (when outside normal accepted boundaries) but alklso symptoms such as paranoia. anger and aggression, catatonia, ability to feel or process emotions, suicidal and self harm behaviours including eating disorders, obsessiveness, breakdowna and emotional collapse, phobia (sometimes as debilitating as agroraphobia), dementias....

DH had depression, he didn't feel a bit sad, he tried to kill himself. That is a severe, potentially fatal disorder and your definition completely glosses over that, and the expereinces of other people whose lives are massively affected by very real disorders often of a physical aetiology.

Mental Illness covers symptoms such as paranoia. anger and aggression, catatonia, ability to feel or process emotions, suicidal and self harm behaviours including eating disorders, obsessiveness, breakdowna and emotional collapse, phobia (sometimes as debilitating as agroraphobia), dementias....

Mental Health s how happy or sad a person is and how they are coping with life this is regardless of a diagnosis or not.

For examples:

Someone with post natal depression maybe able to cope with that if they have a supportive environment and the right help and have good mental health
Someone who doesn't can get increasingly worse, lose their self esteem and become suicidal.

Someone with schizophrenia maybe able to cope that if they have a supportive environment and the right help and have good mental health
Someone who doesn't can get increasingly worse, lose their self esteem and become suicidal.

That's a very social moel though isn't it?

Someone with certain disorders migt not get well desopite excellent help, they might kill someone. Now, if you said 'MH health is how happy someone is (or not) how well they function in society and how safe- to tehmselves and otehr- theya re' I might have more understanding, and quite possibly my view is skwewed by spending my nurse training ( I didn't complete, I hated it, we were on some silly trial scheme that failed dismally) and time afterwards working with people who had been sectioned. but just about how happy someone is or is not- nah. Far more complex. far wider reaching.

I am confused slightly by your answer.

They are many people walking around with various mental illness's who do not go and kill people. This is a common myth and statistics show that people with a mental inllness are more likely to get attacked and even killed because of their mental illness than attack and kill someone themselves.

I am saying their is a difference between a diagnosis and mental health.

Quite a simple point but also am aware of the complexities of mental illness.

Many people live with depression, paranoia, schizophrenia, bi polar and other anxieties daily. They are invisible illnesses, they might never be sectioned and be coping really well with their lives.

Statistically the number of sectioned people with mental illness is small.

*there

And *small in comparrison to the large amount of people who manage in society with a mental illness.

Of course there are wassup but tehy all fall under the ehading MH and deserve their needs recognised within any usage; I absolutely agree with you about your last post (and DH is a case in point, doubt he will ever get off the meds tbh), indeed I have agoraphobia, at a sort of manageable level.

But sometimes you get the 'depression is just feeling a bit miserable and not a real thing' mob on here and I think I may have mistaken you for one of them. Depression is of course more than feeling a bit upset: it varies hugely and can be very mild or potentially fatal. I've posted about dh on ehre in the past (years ago) and had people swearing at me / him for him being a lazy

There is no doubt that mental health is under diagnosed, under recognised, stigmitised, under funded by the mental health providers and needs greater awareness raising of what it actually is.

I understand that you are answering me from your framework model, your life experiences and what you know because of that.

You have been through a really tough time.

No, comapred to most I am pretty lucky- I have Dh, 4 dcs that I love, a course of study I enjoy- I am pretty well off. But thank you.

Peachy

I think we are running along similar lines of thought.

I was following another research trail just now, and came across this web site, which may interest you and may be others on this thread.
Psychologist - Neuro-Psych Tests with so many interesting links on either side of the main page column.

Thanks Dolfrog, have bookmarked to read later X