Environmental autism a U.S idea but U.K MNers agree in principle

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Environmental Autism

MN social worker says "people think that neglect is way down the scale when compared to abuse, but nearly half of the children who i deal with on CP/CIN plans have been left disabled to some degree because of neglect"

"The symptoms display as autism, so until a 'syndrome' name is found it is the easiest way to explain it"

Is anyone else very uncomfortable with the fact that autism is being equated with abuse and neglect? Yes, disability can be caused by neglect but conditions like autism?

here

A mother's place is in the wrong....

FFS! what a crock

I don't doubt that a small number of children labelled autistic/asd have environmental or institutional autism, my ds included.

I can't get to the MNsocialworker link, but read the Dailymail piece. It's impossible to know whether the child in the story was born autistic or became autistic from bad parenting. As I understand it, contrary to the article there is no such thing as a genetic test for autism. It would seem to me that even if she was born predisposed to autism, being brought up in a neglectful chaotic environment would have made her condition worse.

Most of the parents posting here on mn sn board believe that if we work ten or a hundred times harder than other parents we can improve our dc's chances. Doesn't it then follow that a dreadful early upbringing would make life even harder for our dcs?

OOdles sort of but then you need to look furtehr back.

For example ASD is ome cases is genetic: so is it not possible that the chaos is caused by a parent having ASD, ADHD or a related disorder? Those disorders can include depression which is hugely relevant.

It's a cycle I ahve seen several times via work but it's the asd at heart not someone who is deliberately uncatring: after the organisational skills of someone on the spectrum are often amrkedly impaired, regardless of what level they appear to operate at.

Genetic tests for ASD unlikely, maybe something to test for different aspects of disorder but a single test that is ASD-wide? can't see it. Not impossible (not my field) but unlikely.

Yes Sancti, probably most ASD cases do have a genetic origin. There is every chance that the girl in the DM story was raised by a mother who had some disability herself. So the girl could have inherited ASD genes from her parents, she could have learned (or failed to learn) social interaction from her mother or a combination of the two.

Obviously the refridgerator mother theory of the 50's/60's was unhelpful (and it wasn't just ASD that was blamed on bad mothering). But the pendulum has swung from considering environmental factors to blaming everything on genes. So damaged children from the 'underclass' are written off as genetically undesirable. And because disabilities are deemed entirely genetic it follows that nothing can be done for such children (whatever class background), hence the rubbishy services our children are offered. If disabilities such as ASD are completely genetic and immutable then the authorities are excused for not screening children at a young age.

I should imagine that environmental autism (if that's the term) represents a small number of cases. But if it's not recognised then it excuses doctors for failing to keep tabs on children in high risk groups, such as premature babies or blind children.

It would be interesting to see what people are using as the diagnostic criteria for this neglect caused asd (environmental isn't right- that is more complex). I always thought ASD was a dx you reached after ruling out Attachment Disorder, and I can't see how you would in these cases.

On the various mri scans, Simon Baron Cohen's clinic have established that the wiring of the brain is different in those with Asperger Syndrome.

My actual NT child suffers more neglect than my SN one. I am not free to talk to her at will, I have to make a space in the bloody day for her only when DH or elder DD is here. There are parties she couldnt go to due to DS having a bad day and so me not being able to take her. She gets hit occasionally by DS she has all her pretty things destroyed unless I have a lock on her door to keep him out. She loves art and cannot leave a single craft item out or it gets ruined as he is upset that he cant do it. If she needs a cuddle you can guarantee my SN child is in meltdown himself or has poured shampoo over the bathroom floor and walls because I went to her and was not watching. They are both LOVED very much, both fed, clean, and have everything I can give them and I do my best to make sure she is made aware of that every day we always hug at night and say we love each other and have one special day a month for just us JUST ONE, and I thank god that my DD although only 10 is older beyond her years to accept this neglect as I see it :(

My home is cleaned in a circle, section each day. There are 5 of us so I have 3 loads of washing/drying every day. I hoover once a day and if there are crisps or trod in crayon on the floor at night it bloody stays there till morning, or my other children dont get my time either. They dont want a cleaner they want a mum. And funnily enough the one that has the most 24/7 attention is SN........

To be honest if anyone ever suggested a parent course to me I would tell them to kiss it regardless of what therapy carrot they dangle........

Sorry I dont suppose anyone can tell this has pissed me off

oh, I thought this thread would be about something else - I see Peachy touched on it in her most recent post.

environmental autism (as a phrase) has been around a while - it is usually used to mean autism with a strong biomedical/environmental impact development route. the people over at respectrum have a strong belief in allergy-induced autism, which boils down to the same thing.

I have looked briefly through the other thread, and I agree with cory - I don't think anyone is trying to hark back to the deeply unpleasant and unhelpful refrigerator mother theories.

I think that the environment (NOT personal relationships within families) as a whole probably plays quite a large part in a significant percentage of autism. whether that autism would be there without the various environmental triggers, or whether the autism has been exacerbated by the environment is a harder question to answer.

Peachy, I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly but I think there were some twin studied that showed there wasn't 100% concordance between identical twins - I think the chance was in the high 70%s that if one identical had ASD the other would too. Which seemed to indicate that environment (as Silver is using the term) is involved since the identical twins are the same genetically. I think fraternal twins (which are genetically no closer than standard siblings) had a much higher concordance than you would expect (60+%) again suggesting environmental influences.

It's very interesting ... complex/multifactorial etc

Okay my two pennorth.

First I hate the way that the word environmental is used in the Autism world to equate to neglect. There are plenty of other environmental factors otu there eg. illness, vaccinations (not that I think they cause it), diet etc. Some cancers have environmental casues, or factors, no one usually blames the mothers there.

Second in 100 years people will probably look back at now, and be saddened that the correct things were not done to maximise the life chances of all ASD people. Just as we might look back 200 years and be horrified by how sidelined Blind or Deaf people were.

Third I don't think it is helpful to blame people, or to come up with lists of red flags. Almost all parents do their best by their kids, but it can be hard to know what is best for any individual in a unique set of circumstances.

gracious I have actually worked with twins like that- adults, one very severe the otehr HFA. Was an eye opener.

it depends on how you see environment. If one twin is exposed to a virus that makes the ASD more severe or a head injury that's still environment. I have a few kids with ASD and whilst 2 of them are HFA / AS level one is more severe: there are a few things we can work out that may explain that- from a head injury aged 6 months to beig prescribed the wrong sort of specialist formula for 2 years.

And of course there is some login in the notion that if you put your ASD child in a corner and leave them tehre they will fail to develop: I don't doubt for one minute that neglect can exaccerbate ASD, I don;t think it causes it IYSWIM.

DAwn several research studies ahve found that- also in ADHD which many think is related (I do, ds2 seems to have adhd and we currently ahve some very interested researchers looking to fund us going to Brum in November to look at my family). My own research is into empathy which I think is quite significant into how ASD plays out in an individual (my 2 with HFA have zero it would seem, the more severe one has plenty and seems to be the one thing that has enabled him to function at all).