Ds being picked on by a SN child - how to handle it please.

[tamba]

Im not sure if this is the right place to put this and I am probabkly going to offend people because i dont know the correct terms for things or how i should word this so sorry in advance.

Ds is 3.5 and goes to a private nursery. Last night he told my dh that a child at nursery had been pulling his hair, pinching, hitting and pushing him around for sometime, he was very upset and has been sleeping badly because of it. This morning he told me and his story was the same.

I called the nursery and arranged an appointment for today.. I was so angry and upset that my baby was being victimised by this child. I wanted him to be punished, told off, whatever it is thy use as disipline in nurserys.

After talking to the staff they said this child frequently had people complaining that he was hurting there children so he was well known to the staff. They also said he had some mild sn which made him unco-ordinated and he gets frustrated with it or sometimes doesnt understand that what he is doing is wrong.

This changed my perspective as i no longer saw this child as 'naughty' or a 'bully' but how should i approach it? I obviously dont want my ds going to nursery and being hurt and upset but i also dont want the child who is doing the hurting to get into trouble etc as it is not his fault.

I have asked them to keep an incident log of everything that happens so I am kept up to date but was wondering if there was anyway I could help him and my son become friends (and hopefully that will stop the hitting?) should i invite them round to mine or is that the wrong thing to do?

could help him and my son become friends (and hopefully that will stop the hitting?). Hmmm bit simplistic I'm afraid. ds1 attacked dh so badly en route to Ireland because he was stressed (never again) that he looked as if he had been in a fight and was covered in blood. And ds1 adores his dad.

If the nursery cannot supervise him sufficiently they should be looking for funding for a support worker. (although not always easy to get).

It's not really your responsibility to sort this situation out. The Nursery staff should possibly be doing more to help this child avoid situations (as far as possible)where he becomes frustrated and lashes out at other chilrden. Have they said what they can do to mitigate this kind of behaviour. As for inviting him round, well maybe but does your ds view this boy as his friend? Would he welcome a play date or would it upset him if he found someone he perceives as a bully show up at his front door.

sorry to hear this is happening to your ds
the exact same thing happened to mine at that age and we pulled him out of the nursery and cut contact with the child who assaulted him, tricky as he was a neighbour.

It's a tough one and I can understand you don't want to get indignant or huffy but can't realistically put your child in danger at nursery

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I am surprised the nursery aren't doing more to stop this happening tbh. It is their job not yours.

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The nursery staff should be working on strategies to avoid the hitting etc. If they can't deal with it then they should be seeking extra help - either financial help to pay for some support or practical advice/help from professionals.

It really isn't fair that the other children are suffering because these incidents aren't being properly dealt with.

Sorry to be thick... what is sn?

sn = special needs

We had a problem with a child hitting ds at nursery a while ago and by co-incidence they were both invited to the same b'day party. It gave me opportunity to talk to his parents and for the boys to play with each other out of the nursery environment, and the bullying stopped (maybe co-incidence but its where i got the idea from)

Thank you for the advice and for not jumping on me (I was worried id offend someone )

Just worked out what you meant by sn. I was hoping to be helpful, but don't think I can add anything of use; not much experience.

My other thought was that if my ds and this little lad were to become friends it might ease the frustration at nursery a little and maybe have a positive affect on his behaviour as i dont think he has many friends which could make him feel left out and make him lash out more so i was hoping that with a little mate they could help each other (him having a friend to play with and my ds learning that problems can be overcome and confidence etc) I know its really simplistic and I have no idea about what problems sn children have. I guess i just want a happy ending instead of this little lad getting into trouble for something he really doesnt have control over if that makes sense.

Will see how things go before the christmas break and will try and get a chance to chat to his parents.

Thanks again xxx

I think you are being v. kind about it. But it is the nurseries job to keep a closer eye and put some stratergies in place to help him. I would ask them what they are doing.

Tamba- he may not be lashing out for reasons that you or I would identify as problems though. DS1 did have a little phase of pinching (VERY hard) when he was at mainstream nursery. He was doing it to see the children scream. He didn;t want them to scream to upset them- he doesn;t have the understanding to even know that he had upset them- he just liked the noise. We were lucky in that our nursery was very interested in autism and the owner knew exactly how to control the situation- and the behaviour went within 2 weeks.

We then had the same behaviour crop up at mainstream school. Luckily it was only directed towards adults, but they mismanaged it so badly that it escalated and got worse and worse for months.

He then moved to special school where it appeared again last summer. This time directed towards children and because he wanted to see inside their mouths. His school is very autism aware, has a behaviourist approach and again managed to extoinguish the behaviour within a couple of weeks. FIrst of all they thought he was doing it because he didn't like the noise other children were making, but I was able to explain his motivation and it was all sorted.

Anyway point being really the only way this behaviour will go is by the nursery dealing with it appropriately. UNfortunately they may not have a clue what to do (ds1's ms school certainly didn't).

If it continues after the xmas break I think you can ask them more about how much support and advice they are getting (they won't tell you, but it might make them seek it out).

I totally understand. My boys are both autistic and ds1 can be particularly challenging. He lashes out and has clonked a good number of children in his time (and teachers too!). And when he does, it is because someone has not done their job properly. A situation was not diffused, his mood wasn't noticed, he wasn't moved or understood etc etc.

It's great that you are sympathetic and understand the difference between a 'naughty' child and an sn child. But listen, at the end of the day, your child has the right to not be scared! It's not ok that your child is upset and gets hurt and nobody should be expecting you to just put up with it. It would NOT be a good idea to ask your child to just take it!

Certainly explain to your child that this other kid doesnt understand that what he is doing is hurting - there are many books you can get to help explain sn to young children.

My boys both have full time 1:1, I don't know what support is in place for this boy, but he should NOT be put in a situation where he is able to hit, the support should be there for him so that it doesnt get to that point. You must insist that your own child is safe and happy, it is for the nursery to ensure that this happens. They have a responsibility to all children.

We moved house recently, and my kids attend a new school, and so far, things are going really well. But at the old school, you know what hurt me the most? That my son had no friends. That the other kids didnt like him, didnt want to play with him, didnt invite him to parties etc, because the support in place was crap and he was left in a situation where he was able to hit out. You cant expect children to like someone who hits them!

I think your idea of inviting him round - with a parent, obviously! is a good one. She will probably be so grateful, I know the thought of my sons having friends has me jumping up and down (or running in circles chasing my tail!!)

I'm tired and a bit confused, but I hope you get what I am whittering on about!!

I saw the childs parents today at the nursery nativity. I did go and speak to them as i wanted to make sure they were aware of the current problems he and my son were having.

They were very shocked as the nursery hadnt informed them that i had been to see them yesterday, they had previously asked to be kept informed as this would help them to help there child.

We asked why his parents hadnt been told and the staff member said that because it was the first time i had talked to them about it they didnt see the point in talking to his parents unitl it happened again. (until??)

Anyhow, his parents are going to talk too him later and although i doubt it will do much good (as im guessing this isnt something that can be resolved by talking to him otherwise it wouldnt kee happening) it is nice to know his parents are approachable.

This little boy was in the nativity too and made a fab king (he didnt say is lines cause he spotted his mom and dad bless him ) and i told him he had a lovely crown which he was very pleased about.

Nursery didnt seem to pleased that id spoken to his parents though - opps!

My son Sam (just 6) has As and an unfortuante tendency to violence. My advice is:

1. Remeber that YOUR kid is your responsibility, not the other one;
2. But compassion like yours is wonderful and you should be congratulated
3. Keep the other parents updated, they can be your allies
4. Teach your child about SN BUT ALSO TEACH HIM HE HAS A RIGHT NOT TO BE BULLIED- BY ANYONE
5. If you feel child is a real risk, call Social Services... wish someone had about Sam, would have been easier to get help
6. Keep pressing the school about what action they are taking. The required action may be different, the need for it remains unchanged.

I wish Sam's old school friends parents had been as compassionate as you . They got a petition against Sam (to get him kicked out), and wouldn't speak to me. being blanked by the entire school- . Here, Sam's behaviour is a little better anyhow but I've let as many aprents know his condition as possible, and they are all compassionate and inclusive.

I wish that the nursery staff would understand that parents in this situation need to be told what is really happening. Often it is a behavioural issue that can be nipped in the bud relatively quickly if the staff and parents are working together. If it's allowed to happen several times before the parents are informed then a one-off incident can end up becoming a habit and therefore much harder to solve.

I agree with all those who are saying that you sound really lovely, Tamba.

awe thanks but im really not that lovely

And also it is only through reading these boards and the words of all you who post here that i have some understanding (although very limited) of what problems are faced by sn children and there families.

We were at the wakey warehouse last week and we sitting there board when a woman came over to us with her son who was about 2. She said she just wanted to let us know that her son had autism and that he may 'attack' our children and she apoligised in advance and asked us to come tell her if we saw anything happening. She then went and told every other family that was there.

This meant that when i saw him dragging my 19 month round by the hair i wasnt really angry about it as i would normally have been because i knew that he wasnt a 'naughty' child or a 'little brat' he was simply a child with problems.

I did tell his mother and pointed her in the direction he had gone (as he was pursuing a little girl now) and she was able to stop it before it had started iyswim. I thought it was really great that she let us all know, i think she was more relaxed about it.

I really think that awareness of AS etc should be raised as i have seen people muttering behind parents backs and what happened to you peachy was just awful! My brother has AS although is very high functioning - hes at college now. And no body ever understood really, not even school teachers.

Anyhow, i am rambling pointlessly so will stop but thank you for all your advice and kind words (am still going to invite the other child over as my ds said he wants to be friends with him and his mom seems nice )

Do invite him Tamba, it'd be good for both of them and there's a good chance in a 1 on 1 environment (not too noisy etc) environment they'll be able to become good mates.

Tamba I have to say that mums approach is a bit odd. If I thought ds1 was going to attack another child (generally he doesn't, although he's often odd), I wouldn't tell the other parents to tell me, I'd follow him round as if we were attached by velcro. It's a PITA, but goes with the territory.

Agree that nursery should be telling the parents and working out a joint strategy. We had this problem with mainstream school though. In the end I sent them in a behaviour chart and asked the lsa's to fill it in daily.

Hi tamba,

Just wanted to say that I too appreciate your patience and understanding with all of this. When my DS1 was three and at a private nursery, he was doing lots of hitting and biting other children (and his own little brother). Sadly, the nursery he was at were pretty poor about putting in place strategies to help - they just wanted to throw him out and be done with it! They didn't make any attempts to include him or integrate him with other children. I went to the Christmas party to find that all the other children were doing a little play from which he'd been mysteriously excluded. Anyway, things were much better when he started attending a community nursery where the nursery manager got enough resources together for him to have onene attention.