Lies and Tribunal

[Claw3]

The decision notice of Tribunal, is filled with comments from SENCO that are not true. I have evidence that the comments she made are not true.

For example decision notice states "SENCO told us that school are not aware of any self injury" which she did. But i have a letter she sent to the LA, when they requested a list of ds's difficulties and she listed the self injury and told LA they were managing it. I also sent her a letter and photographs of the various injuries ds had caused himself in school, all prior to Tribunal.

Also things like telling the Tribunal that ds was receiving help, that he isnt, saying he met IEP targets when he hasnt etc, etc. All of which i have evidence proving the opposite.

I have written to SENCO asking her to clarify. Have i done the right thing?

Have you been signing the IEPs? If so, next time refuse until the evaluation is filled in.

Wassup, telling CAMHS of my conspiracy theory, is something you just dont do. Who is a part of CAMHS main funding, the LA. CAMHS are fence sitters.

Although CAMHS have been supportive of my statement request and wrote a letter in support of my request. They do not get involved in disagreements.

So i can tell CAMHS that ds has not had a mentor, but when school say that he has, they will accept this.

Nope, the 2 IEP's i have are not signed by anyone, SENCO hasnt even signed them. I didnt make a fuss about this at the time, as they were both pre-tribunal and school told me they were backing my request, they changed their mind just before Tribunal.

Ds hasnt had an IEP for me to sign since Oct 2010.

So how by saying to CAMHS they say this is happening but it's not happening a issue? They can reiterate to the school the point of it happening from a mental health point of view/position.

Ok so does your son have a mentor, does he know their name, do they come to him, does he go to them? NO is probably his answer.

So you don't have IEP meetings?

I can say to CAMHS that ds doesnt have a mentor, i have already have, thats why CAMHS were going to suggest a mentor.

But when we go into school SENCO will say he already has a mentor, knows her well, is meeting the sucess criteria etc, etc as she said at Tribunal. Then we are back to square one again, give me a copy of the mentor programme, targets, outcome then.

I have already requested a copy, this is what the thread was about really. Should i have requested a copy now or just a copy of his school file, for use at Tribunal which could be a year away. I have been trying to explain why i felt the need to request it now and deal with it now. Instead of not alerting them to the info i was after.

No Wassup, i did request that i be included, but again didnt make a fuss as school told me they were backing my request for a statement. They even wrote on ds's IEP's along with his 4 targets etc, "areas to be developed, these should come from Statement objectives/yearly targets. Targets should address the needs identified" then listed all the difficulties that the IEP didnt cover.

They then removed their support and appeared as a witness for the LA just before Tribunal, they also removed the 20 hours of 1:1 support ds had been getting, which i didnt even learn about until Tribunal.

I trusted them, all part of a big game plan.

Yes Claw.

Request the school file under the data protection act.

When you receive it go through it. Write a letter explaining that some essential information is missing (And outline it. i.e. targets, evaluation etc.) and please can you have it by the end of the week as they are already over their 15 days and you have supplied them with the maximum fee for covering the cost of photocopying.

I do understand where you are coming from. Your end goal is NOT a tribunal, it is adequate provision for your ds and you want it though the fastest, most efficient route. The trouble is, this will 'probably' BE tribunal, as even with you doing everything right now and trying really hard, nothing will change until then. Look at your experiences so far!

So keep tribunal in mind when you do EVERYTHING, because ultimately that is where you are likely to end up. That doesn't mean you should give up trying to get things sorted in the meantime though. It's a bit of a tricky balance isn't it?

Sorry, that was no bloody use was it!

Keep organised. Keep files. Mark dates on a calendar and absolutely follow everything up in writing.

One thing that is important though. If you are focussing on the future, it is probably better not to 'trap' the SENCO on the details of the past, but rather offer her a way forward and out of it. You can write to her and suggest that you are disappointed that you have not seen any evaluation of the targets set in his IEP. Would it be possible to meet with her to set the next one as you AND YOUR DS have some ideas and want to work in partnership with them. The dates you are available are x, y and z. You look forward to hearing from her.

Star, sorry i dont understand what you mean 'by they already over their 15 days'? I havent requested school file yet.

I have been trying to keep tribunal in mind, when i do everything as i agree this is where we will probably end up. I want the help in place, that school is saying is already saying is in place, because this is what ds needs now, not next year. I want school to ackowledge that he hasnt met his targets, so we can then focus on why the help is not working. I know exactly why some of the help isnt working or isnt likely to work, but i cant express this, as school are claiming its been sucessful. We are wasting time. It limits everything that can be done to help ds, every outside agency that visits is a waste, every meeting is a waste, every recommendation is a waste. School and I could very easily work together, i might even be able to get them to support the statementing process, if i could talk to them, but we cant move forward until the very basic not meeting targets has been acknowledged and they continue to claim success from programmes that dont exist. It is a tricky balance.

I really dont want to trap SENCO, when i write on here, i dont bother to give explanations, as I already feel understood, so perhaps the impression i give is the wrong one and i should explain my reasoning a bit more. I just want to find something that we can both agree on and work from there. At the moment if we cant even agree on something as simple as targets not being met, when they are there in black and white, we have nothing to build on. SENCO can use any excuse under the sun for not filling out the evualtion section, i really dont care and wont hold her to it or question her further, just as long as she fills it out.

Oh god, I wasn't suggesting that you were setting out to trap anyone.

But regardless, if the SENCO has made a mistake that she cannot admit to because her job would be on the line, you banging on about it, however justified, will make her feel trapped and she will distance herself and fob you off even more.

So I meant. Try to push the past under the carpet (YOUR carpet, so you have it to bring back in the future) and focus on moving forward. Find some totally different, fresh targets that you can discuss with her and agree how they will be monitored and over what time, then, once you have the relationship established, bring one or two of the old ones back in, with a slight change to the wording. Surely at the beginning of term, it is a good time to do a new IEP. If there already is one ask them if you could consider it a draft as you haven't inputted yet.

The 15 days thing: - I meant AFTER you have got the file you should write to them asking for the missing information that they told you they have but have not supplied as is their duty under the data protection act.

Oh right, sorry i thought that was the impression i was giving and oh right on the 15 days too.

Im hoping she will reply with an excuse, then fine excuse accept, now lets move on. Even if she replies insisting that he has met targets, we cant get away from evaluating IEP's.

Lets write next IEP, but old one needs to be evualated, otherwise ds's , IEP's are pointless.

So you think rather than demanding that ds's IEP's are evualated, we should forget this for now, leave them blank and start a whole new set of unrelated targets.

That would be difficult as the IEP targets cover ds's greatest difficulties, anxiety, eating, fine and gross motor skills and social skills. Although they did remove social skills and replace this with a vision target.

But i suppose the targets could still cover anxiety for example, just with a different target, that is what you probably meant in the first place! only problem is then the help would stay the same.

The other problem i am having, is that the more false success school are claiming, the less help ds is getting. So they are removing help.

Yes, obviously you have to start with the same areas. Targets do after all, address his difficulties and things like anxiety are the most urgent.

What is the anxiety target btw?

For ds to express his anxieties at school with confidence.

The provision for this in July IEP was TA supporting ds (20 hours), Class teacher daily basis, identified mentor (who wasnt actually identified in the IEP) and ASD Advisory team to introduce the anxiety scale.

In Sepetember, ASD advisory team assessed ds in class, during a meeting with ASD advisory teacher told me the following, i then put it in writing and emailed her asking her to confirm that this is exactly what she told me and she did "unable to change his library book without adult assistance. DS became anxious and close to tears at fruit time and needed her to prompt him to tell the teacher that he did not want fruit. During a small group assessment ds struggled with language, communication, rigid thinking and separating fantasy from reality. She observed his avoidance technique of having his PE kit, but saying he had left it at home. Class teacher reported that ds was not able to read from the interactive white board. She concluded that she would make some recommendations, but that ds?s needs were too complex for her to deal with on her own and she would refer onto visual impairment team, SALT and Motor Skills Team.

October IEP target remained the same, the provision however had changed to - every morning ds to answer the register with how he is feeing and he is to speak to class teacher if he is feeling anxious.

Its not on Star, i cant leave ds like this until Tribunal.

Okay. It is clearly unreasonable for a child with an anxiety problem to have to tell an adult he doesn't necessarily trust how he is feeling let alone a class full of his peers ffs.

How about this strategy instead. DS to choose adult that he trusts that is in the classroom, OR a friendly peer. This person is to ask at regular intervals (say every 30mins or so) to rate his anxiety on a scale of 1-10 OR on a card of colours from green to red (depending on what DS would prefer). There will be no discussion about the anxiety and your ds doesn't even need to speak. The peer or adult will mark down the day and time of the rating.

After period of days you and the class teacher will sit down and look at the ratings and see if you can identify any patterns thoughout the day i.e. before PE, break times, during maths, after a different teacher takes the class etc etc. THEN you just focus on the times that got a red, or 8-10 rating and do the same thing just at those times i.e. every 15mins this time, to work out when the triggers are and WHAT the triggers are.

THEN you get to write a meaningful IEP about it.

And that IEP target is shite. It is missing an essential step which is to express his anxieties at all, only then can you move to doing it with confidence.

Star, exactly you can see why its not going to work and you dont even know ds! The onus cannot be on ds, because his biggest problem is approaching an adult in the first place. His biggest problem is communicating. The school have 8 pages of recommendations, they are hardly following any, as they dont feel they are needed. Even if ds has a TA 1:1 full time, just putting a TA in place is not enough. She has to have strategies in place so that he can communicate with her.

School dont see the point of changing any strategy, because they are claiming strategies are successful. Thats my whole point i have a million and one strategies, but i cant talk to the school about these all the while they continue to claim success. If they could ackowledge that these strategies have not been successful, then we could move on, with putting the right strategies in place.

So every meeting is always about what they are doing right, with experts congraluating them on their success.

Im trying to think of solutions, but keeping coming back to the same thing, in order to move on, they have to ackowledge that their strategies have not been successful! Its there in black and white, it really shouldnt be that hard.

Look. Forget the IEPs for now. I have never spoken to any friend that works in schools that have any regard for them anyway.

Leave them as they are and ignore them.

Set up a meeting about 'additional' difficulties and solutions. Call the meeting 'how we are going to work together for ds and communicate'.

Claw, I can only offer suggestions. It isn't that I don't know what you are up against. I honestly do. My ds' nursery had what I called 'dogmatic ignorance' and they defended their right to have it to extreme lengths.

So people suggest things and you might say it isn't possible, because of the people you are dealing with. And you might be right. And that is why, despite your efforts now the day of tribunal is still out there.

Would cahms ever support a decision to reduce his school hours?

Thanks Star, you have been very helpful, its been a bit like therapy session, getting it all of my chest! your questions and comments have really made me think hard about what i want and what im doing, i appreciate it.

I would like to use the opportunity with the CAMHS meeting to discuss what would work for ds. Im going to go into the meeting with a plan, these are the strategies that would work for ds, something similar to what you suggested earlier, then ask for them to be incorporated into his IEP, kind of 'i think this strategy might work better, as x expert recommended it, wouldnt you agree CAMHS' kind of thing. Even if the school say no, the meeting will be minuted.

CAMHS are very much on side now and have been very supportive. They wrote to school/LA as news from the old school obviously followed me to the new school (they were saying i was the cause of ds's difficulties). Basically spelling out that ds has ASD and as a result of this he has difficulties with understanding interactions and is confused by them, causing him to be anxious and have low confidence. They even told them that during therapy ds had re-enacted moments of stress and that a particular theme evident is school and he use self injuries behaviour to alleviate tension and without the appropriate help in school, these behaviours could escalate.

However i think they would like to see school give him the appropriate help. If this doesnt happen at the meeting, they might support reducing his school hours.

Could school do a scale from zero - 10 with him each day so all he had to do was to mark it to say how school was for him that day?
They could have a few faces such as happy, worried, sad, angry, ok and he could circle which one was relevant?
This would take 2 mins at the end of each day and would be a record of his anxiety levels but you could put it to school that it was a way for him to have any worries dealt with or expressed with at school before he went home?

In fact i will draft the plan and send it to CAMHS for them to agree beforehand and ask if they would like to add anything. Something positive has come out of this thread yay! Thanks Star.

If school hours are reduced, this should not be an ultimate solution, it should be a part of the solution to getting him back into full-time school and happy iyswim.

It shouldn't just be a cop out for the school.

And you're welcome. I'm sorry I don't have the answers. I don't think there are any sometimes, but that doesn't mean you should stand still and shrug , -which I know you aren't doing.

Star, tell me more about how reducing his hours would work please?

LOL i like that you have added 'which i know you arent doing' if im coming across as defensive, its the brain storming im doing at the moment

Could CAMHS say in writing that there has been no improvement in his anxiety levels / reduction of self injurious behaviour (SIB)?

Would camhs be agreeable to say directing school to keep a daily log of any SIB / anxiety episodes?

Would they recommend an IEP target for school to implement strategies to reduce SIB / anxiety?

Would CAMHS provide any support or expertise into school?

Or would they be able to refer to a counsellor for DS who might see him regularly so that someone other than you is monitoring his anxiety / SIB? I feel you need someone independent to say he is still suffering high anxiety / SIB and so he needs greater support / different placement.

IEPS should be outcome focussed so maybe you should focus not on what has or not happened but the fact the desired outcome - lower anxiety - has not been achieved - and therefore a new approach is needed?

PM me with a email you can get attachments and I will email you a copy of DS ABA behaviour plan which will show you what good practice looks like and give you some ammunition as to how you can argue for a similar approach (it doesn't deal with anxiety as DS is not anxious but does deal with SIB and stim) - which as it requires behavioural strategies will require someone with specific experience to be involved or moving your DS eg to an independent school for AS

Hi Wassup, happy, sad faces are to be avoided at all costs. This was something that was put into place at his old school. The idea was as you say for ds or an adult to fill out how HE was feeling. School used it to punish ds ie a sad face for things he had difficult with. It was months before i found out, they were using it for this purpose. Ds was a nervous wreck by this time.

Same as communication cards, ds used to use them, until old school punished him for using them ie he got sent to the head teacher for a telling off for telling 'lies', he hadnt understood a situation, tried to use his card to go inside and get away from the situation and was sent to the HT instead. He refuses to use them now.

The more i think about it, the more i like Star's idea. There is a big discrepency in what ds tells me he worries about and telling teachers or lack of it. He broke down in tears 2 nights ago, he told me he was upset that he is last to do anything, he is 'rubbish' at literacy and math and doesnt know any of his times table. He said he cant learn and everyone else is smarter than him. He says he is really slow at writing and doesnt know what to write. He wanted me to write it in his home/school book and tell them how he felt. (this is exactly what experts have observed too)

The response from SENCO 'i will talk to class teacher to reinforce strategies that were being used in class last year so that she monitors ds being 'last'

Being 'last' is not the problem, he is always last as he doesnt understand what he is supposed to be doing or is struggling.