Ok, this is really an SN AIBU.....

[Becaroooo]

My ds1 (8) was assessed by the private EP today at school. Afterwards, had a quick meeting with the EP, my sons new teacher (well, one of them) and his teacher from last year.

Havent got the report yet, obviously, the EP just wanted to talk through some of the tests she did and ask me what my concerns were etc.
She said that he was a bright boy with a great vocabulary.

I made the point that, despite 10 months 1-1 with me and being at this school since Nov last year ds1 has made very little progress wrt literacy. If this continues he will get even further behind his peers than he is now (he is in year 4 and working at a 1a for reading and 1b for writing )

I told her that I am very concerned as in 2 years he goes up to high school (year 6) and will sit his SATS and will end up in the lowest sets for everything because of his literacy skills (or lack of)

His teacher from last year then said:

"Well, you may have to accept that thats the best place for him"

wtf???

No. I do not accept that. He is a very bright boy who cant prove he is on paper because of his poor literacy skills!!!

On the one hand, they tell me how clever he is and that he is making progress and that they are pleased and a teacher says that!!!???

He is getting phonics 3 x per week and extra help 2 x per week but the SENCO is (still) off sick and so I cant go to her. He is also not reading every day to a teacher/SENCO/TA etc

Come on, AIBU????

There are plenty of things that can be done in relation to GCSE for children who can't write. The reading side is more important, not just for GCSE but for life. Do you hear him read at home, or is he reluctant to do this?
I found that Secondary were much more clued in to Special Needs than DS' Junior School to be honest.
The SENCo can't help being on long term sick, but in his/her absence the Head still bears responsibility for SEN so should be either taking on the role, or have someone else taking the responsibility.
My DS has just taken GCSE and had a scribe, private room, extra time, and use of a keyboard where appropriate, so at Secondary the writing side was pretty much taken care of.

My feeling is that his difficulties wrt reading and writing will affect EVERY subject at high school...atm he likes maths and is good at it (it has rules!) but from year 5 much more reading and writing is required in maths and it will, of course, have a huge effect in his ability to answer problems/show his working out. Same for any other subject from year 5 onwards....if he cant show he understands the subject through the medium of reading and writing, then of course he will be in the bottom sets...for everything.

I am finding the idea of high school terrifying atm

I still totally disagree. Schools are more than happy to allow students to use readers, scribes, and laptops. It gets them better results and makes the teacher and school look better. In most schools it is far too easy to get these compensating strategies put in place.

So you are saying that children who have real problems with literacy that aren't going to be resolved overnight shouldn't be allowed to succeed where they can because it makes the school look good?

You take a very cynical view, here. Denying appropriate help is asking to turn children with these difficulties into very angry alienated teenagers with little self esteem because they're not allowed to feel anything better than useless.

(not saying they are useless, but if they're bright enough to see that they are failing in ways they don't have the resources to prevent, that is how they are likely to see themselves. I felt useless because I was so bad at PE at school and told I just needed to try harder over and over again. I found out just last week that I have benign joint hypermobility syndrome, which is why physical things that other people find easy have always hurt me so much to attempt. There was a reason why i gave myself a torticollis when I tried to do a backwards roll and a reason why ended up in tears in the changing rooms so often and I don't think I would have been any less of a person for having the right information and knowing that it was perfectly alright not to try to put so much strain on my neck. That would have been doing me a favour and not the PE teacher who repeatedly told me I was being lazy and mustn't want to succeed.)

I'm talking about primary school, not secondary school.

It's not a cynical view. School would rather give my DS a scribe then teach him to write.

In primary school kids don't pass or fail anything. For most subjects like science and history they haven't a clue how they're doing.

my DS knows he will lose marks on his SATs exams, including maths, if he does not improve his handwriting. For him that is the motivation to improve his handwriting.

If my DD still can't read or write by Y6 I will remove her from school. I won't let her have a reader and a writer. Because if she can't read and write there is absolutely no way I'm going to send her to secondary school. There is no way even with compensating strategies she will benefit from secondary school unless she improves vastly.

But all situations are different. You have to do what's right for your kid. But I think 'compensating strategies' are the default position and shouldn't be.

Not sure if this will help but my eldest was very ahead in maths but so behind in reading in year three. It was due to the codes of maths, and rules. I used this for reading (the teacher at the time had a I know what best attitude) I dropped phonics because this only helped with about 40% of words and my son would get angry and demoralised when words would not sound out as the phonics (code) did not work when adults had told him this is how you read (why would teacher lie- he is very rigid). The new code was to just memorise words, I also had a huge battle but finally won about not doing joined up writing. He is secondary school and in top sets, just wish I had a magic wand for p.e now.

squid Its interesting you say that...phonic just hasnt/isnt working for my ds...may I ask what you used to teach him??? (books etc)

My son broke down at the kitchen table over the word KNOW, was is a kicking k, a silent k, was it O as in snow or OW as in how. A child who could answer 17 X 8 in 5 seconds stumped by a four letter word. We talked and we decided to try a different way, he wrote the word 5 time by pen then 20 times by laptop. I bought the magic key books (sorry not on laptop so cannot give link) Oxford reading tree. It was expensive the speed he went through the books but worth every penny. In hindsight I should of just gone the library (but I was on a mission!).What was interesting was he actually could read more than expected what he could not do is read the words phonically.

Thanks squid Arent the ORT books phonics though????

It does not matter as all books have phonic words what it does help with is the repetitive nature of the books. As adults do we need to sound the word cat when we see it as we have seen it that much it is just a label. I was not taught to read by phonics. In fact I had to buy jolly phonics so I could help my children in pre-school and reception. The hardest bit was trying to get him to trust his instincts with words and forget the de-coding of words. I am not anti phonics as my daughter thrived with them.

Squidworth that is really interesting! DS really struggles with phonics he is a whole word or nothing boy so I can totally understand where you are coming from.

squid and coff Thats really interesting as, of course, schools generally only teach reading using synthetic phonics....any suggestions of how I can help ds1 with a whole word approach?? (thats the way I was taught too btw!)

Becarooo - your DS needs a really good memory to be able to learn via whole words.

How are his sight words? Did he find it easy to learn his high frequency words?

Not really indigo Last time school tested them he got 56 out of 100 (so just over 50%) Not great.

What a bloody nightmare it all is

Well if he doesn't find it easy to learn his high frequency words, then it doesn't sound like he'll be able to learn via 'whole words'

Because that's what it is. Show him a word, and expect him to learn it. Repeat.

So it's suitable for kids who find learning HF words very easy, but blending impossible. And I don't think that profile fits your DS.

This is only my experience my DS could not do sight words until the rules changed for him. He could not use two systems at the same time. He also had a huge fear of being wrong. Even when he learnt a word with phonics he would continue to spell it out. I do not even think he understood the concept of reading just the concept of phonics it was one or the other and the biggest problem was the words that broke the rules for him this was just stupid hence the problem with sight words he would try to find the code rather than except there was no code. Again this is one child and what worked for him.

This is really interesting, as I am coming to feel that J is teaching himself to read by whole word recognision, (he has most of his 45 reception words, plus lots more.) It is really surprising to me, having not 'taught' them, and him having ASD, LD and minimal speech until the last 9 months....

He has his phonics mostly, (but I think he will have problems with blending). I am waiting to see.