My Son Is NOT Spoil- He is AUTISTIC!

[mrsforgetful]

O.k! Had a big row with my husband (again) over behaviour of DS2.

We all (me,husb,ds1,2 and 3) went for tea at Mc D's. DS2 took a Lego Bionicle and had 1st 'squawk' when husb said he couldn't take it in McD's- I said i'd already said he could-I won.
We ordered the meals-meanwhile ds2 had chosen to sit with another family of 3 at their table for 4-he often does this-he seems to enjoy a 'new audience'.I checked 'they' didn't mind- as he talks constantly about whatever his 'interest' is...today (ofcourse) it was bionicles! The rest of us sat close enough to 'keep an eye' on him.
The 'other ' family left and the mum came over and 'congratulated' me on such an intelligent child...and even said she was 'very impressed with him'!!!As soon as they left another family joined ds2- he immediately began showing them his bionicle-unfortunately 'they' weren't so interested- so withing 5 mins he was wearing his 'happy meal ' box on his head (he actually looked quite funny....the handles looked like ears!) He finished his meal and then joined us- box still on head (at 6 years old he can still get away with behaving this way!!!!!)I then asked ds1 to queue up for 3 Mc Minis- the 3 little choc cakes in a box - however they only had 2 boxes......NOW THE FUN REALLY BEGAN!

DS2 said he was not sharing his with anyone- I said that was not fair- what about DS3 (only 4yrs) - DS1 who has aspergers/adhd said ds3 could have what they didn't want(!!!) DS3 by now was looking tearful- DS2 was also doing his handflapping/bunnyhops whilst holding on to the counter- i told him to let go of counter- he then started jumping instead- i think this was the point i realised we had an Audience (familiar JIMJAMS?!?)We took the 2 boxes and as we went out i said to DS3 that we would get him something 'special' from the shop near home- he accepted this- and that SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE END OF IT- however DS2 then said he wanted 'something special'- i then said he could if ds3 still wanted the mcminis- DS3 agreed to 'swap' (not bad for a 4yr old....don't think hes ASD)- DS" then refused to hand over the cakes- he wanted both- We had hysterics all the way home in the car- I then took him to the 'sweet shop' and he continued to 'squawk' and cry/sob- no sweets chosen- went home- ds2 by now had ate 2 of the 3 cakes-this started ds2 off even worse- this is when husband and i started rowing over his opinion that ds2 is spoilt!
Eventually- took 30 mins at home ds2 agreed to have the sweets.

PLEASE can someone be honest here....can i have opinions on both 'sides' please- IF he is autistic (Still in DX process) then am i wrong to 'give in ' and buy the sweets?....But as far as 'spoilt child sydrome'goes...if my 4 year old did the same we would never have got so far into this and he would have agreed to compromise sooner- however DS2 cannot be reasoned with....You see amid all this going on i still state to him what is right/wrong/fair etc and then the next time we are in the same situation i will in advance 'prepare' him for what 'might' upset his applecart....so I don't think i am spoiling him....but life is so hard at the moment with his difficulties accepting that anyone else has a right to choose what to watch on t.v/where to sit/what to play with etc that I need to know if there are any of you with autist children who get sooooo distressed and squeal and squawk/winge etc so much that it appears to the 'outside world' that THEY are spoiled little BR*TS. (mind you what hope have i when my husband is one of these on the 'outside'?)

Mrs forgetful x

oh mrs forgetful - I really feel for you and I've only got ds to contend with. dd is not yet at the stage of arguing over things. I think you are doing really well trying to negotiate between 3 children all with different needs but then suddenly changing to them all wanting the same!

I know what you mean about the spoiled thing as I feel the same myself at times. For example we went to buy my dad a birthday card and ds picked up a card with a train on the front and insisted on carrying it to the desk - it said happy birthday brother (I don't even have a brother). It was only 59p and part of me thought - it doesn't matter but the principle of it is that I don't want him just pickingup anything and thinking I will buy it. I let him carry it to the desk and distracted him by giving him money for the real card and pushed it to the side but he remembered as soon as we left the shop and started whinging... fortunately not for long but I feel when he gets older I may be having the same problems as you.

Anyway to return to you - the only way I can see round this is to ask at the desk to make ABSOLUTELY sure that they have enough cakes before you order then. Or you can carry round a treat bag - I do this - ie something that you know that they all like. Or you can just never go out again!!! We very rarely go out as a family as dh is working on our house and it makes things a bit easier as dh tends to be a bit autistic himself if things don't go right although at 58 he is a bit more easy to reason with!

Hope the rest of your weekend is better

We often have an audience- and despite the fact that it soon becomes obvious that ds1 can't talk we still get the spoiled brat comment. You just need a thick skin. Men are always later to accept difficulties. DH is now very good, but my dad is fairly useless at dealing with ds1. He still seems to think that its bad behaviour- he really can't get over that one grrrrr.

Sympathies but not much advice

I'm actually thinking of 'abolishing' saturdays as they seem to be my worst day of the week- i think it's the 'unwinding' that goes on after their school week.
Eulia- do you get 'hassedled' by family and friends to visit/join them on visits to softplay centres/trips to town etc....I do -and am only just beginning to understand why i hardly ever take all 3 boys anywhere alone... and I'm therefore staring to beat myself up less about this- it's not too bad 'out' but if we visit for example my mum- she feels exhausted after 30mins- but she still puts the 'guilt trip' on me if i haven't been to visit or i don't stay long enough-do you find people REFUSE to accept that our kids are happiest and feel safest at home.My attitude is fast becoming that they 'venture outside' 5 days a week to school- therefore what's wrong with them 'enjoying' being at home 2 days a week- mind you i still 'struggle' with asserting myself to stick to how i feel!

My 2 like going out, but I absolutely cannot manage the pair of them by myself. I just refuse point blank. If someone says "do you want to go to the farm/donkeys/swimming" whatever I just reply ""I'd love to but I cannot manage the pair of them by myself". We're unsafe without one adult per child so I'm quite blunt about it tbh.

The friend's I have left do generally understand this, or they have autistic children themselves so are in the same boat.

Maryz- yes...my ds1 occaisionally 'gives' in....the favourite one though that NO-ONE budges on is the 'turn taking ' of tv programmes- the 2 of them will argue over what to watch-over who's 'turn' it is and then even when they actually want the same programmme- they STILL argue about it! Another is IF (!!!) ds2 is tidying up (at my request) he 'reacts' if ds1 helps- now a 'normal' child would be glad of the help!!!! Not DS2.These are 2 of the many DAILY events that i feel no-one else deals with properly- because again they see ds2 as being a 'pain in the neck' rather than a child with 'difficulties'

wish you lived by me jimjams, think we would cope just fine............ and bet the kids would love it! ...DAVROS WHEN IS THE SN MEET UP????????????????..would definatley come even though we are 2000miles away

I take my two everywhere alone otherwise we'd never go anywhere as I don't have anyone who can help me. I can only take dd out alone when ds is at nursery - I don't usually have time to go anything much than a quick swim so tend to do most of the 'proper' going out with them both. I've just got used to having to cope but it is hard at times... and I have wondered whether I should be when ds was going through a phase of running off. At times I was literally standing there not knowing whether to leave dd unattended in her pram or run after ds. Thankfully he is growing out of that although I am still very wary. I even take them both swimming at the same time but that is getting really hard now that dd is climbing out o fhte pool and running away and ds is usually flapping about trying to drown the other swimmers!!

mrsforgetful - no I don't get hassled. I see my parents once/twice a week but they live nearby. It is not always easy though adn I think they are only just starting to understand him (lots of talking aobut smacking being good for him before) I had a few other thoughts about you but I will post later as I need to get ds to bed just now.

Thanks eulalia- i will keep popping back to see your message- no rush though!I am 'lucky' that my husband (though not supportive of asd etc) is here enough that i can sneak in and out without taking the lads- it is actually my husb that tends to 'manage' the visits to the park and has even took them to the cinema!!! He is oblivious to people's rections to the boys behaviour- so seems to 'cope' better than me- and what i tend to do is take 1 out at a time- but i deliberately only do this 'on their terms'- but i'm afraid that because of my own difficulties i rarely include the park/soft play....and i am very self conscious about how i look so swimming is out (i am seeing a psychologist....so things should improve)- but DS1 enjoys shopping for a bit of 'Treat Food' followed by a snack in tescos cafe- this may seem 'boring' but i am using this to 'teach' him about shopping lists,conversations at tills,money, navigation in supermarkets, and in addition he loves using the hot chocolate machine and enjoys 'playing mum' with my pot of tea.DS2 prefers to save up money (he often gets 'paid' 5 or 10p for 'jobs and trying hard' then when he's got enough we go to asda where they have one of those coin sorting machines- he then loves to pile in the money and goes shopping to spend it- its usually spent withing 15 mins so we then buy some fresh cookies and a french stick (he loves carrying it home!) and that's the most he can handle out in town- but if you ask him where he wants to go- he says 'home'- so i trust them that they ARE happy and don't feel they are missing out because of my mental health- i do worry as neighbours are in and out all week....gym,toddlers,ballet,etc....but i am trying now to be 'guided ' by what the boys actually want to do. DS3 does love the park- but i am not comfortable there- so husb does that one- but we do the petshop,postoffice,ducks on the river and he then chooses where we go for lunch-he also loves fruit- so we often go to the edge of town where there is an old fashiones fruit shop-old brass scales the lot...and he also sells whole fish! so ds3 has fun too- i'm aware that all this could sound very dull to many parents- but it works for me and at the moment is all i can cope with- we did try library once but it was a disaster- and unlike JIMJAMS on her 'beaten up day' i had to go home and cryed all evening.
FIO2...Like you I would travel ANYWHERE to meet up with all of you who so regularily post to do with our'special kids'- it's quite funny but sometimes i 'stray' on to a 'normal' thread and feel uncomfortable as none of them have the'colourful' lifes we have!I then have to pinch myself and remember that mumsnet is for everyone!
Also i love the fact that if you read any of the education/special needs or behaviour threads you always see the familiar names cropping up- it would be worth a hefty train fare to be able to all meet- and our kids too- and to then be able to go home with all the faces stored in my mind!
I think half of my problem is that despite diagnosis in february- we have still not reached the top of the 'Autism Support' workshop run in our area- so mumsnet has become that for me!!

Right one child in bed, the other almost asleep (on my lap)...

Yes I was thinking mrs forgetful that you could always just sit down with your dh and really talk about what spoiled children are like rather than just focussing on your own children. Eg autistic children often obsess about really small things and yes ok they may have a tantrum about it but if you think about it would a 'normal' child obsess about something like that? No most spoiled children want more things like more/better toys or more pocket money etc, and often tends to be more materialistic things. A lot of autistic children are actually quite easy to please, in that they don't ask for much (a cake isn't much is it) but it is just the procedure and how everything fits together that has to be just so... hope I am making sense here... of course you know all this yourself but just suggesting that talking through examples may help.

Also was going to mention 'Earlybirds' the course for parents as I think they talk about this kind of thing although I've not been on the course myself. It may help your dh to understand. And I've borrowed a book about siblings and autistic children but not read it yet but if I find any tips I'll let you know.

BTW what is a bionicle?

Oh - our posts crossed. I didn't realise you had your own health problems. You are doing really well to cope with that and everything else and it seems to me that you put your boys first. Your trips out don't sound boring at all. I think it is lovely to do those 'everyday' things and to get so much out of them. I think it is importnat for children to learn about how to cope in the community - even more so if they have difficulites anyway. Children nowadays are often herded into child areas and they actually just want to do ordinary things with other adults.

Must get dd to bed now ...

Bionicles are basically robot looking things that are made from lego- he used to only build them exactly as illustrated- but now can spend 5 or 6 hours a day building his own models which he names after different 'digimon'- i think when the lady referred to being impressed with him in McD's it was because he makes these own desigh models which are far more comples than the 'proper' ones.
Can i also just say that i really admire you for doing all you do- i know that people say that if there's noone else you have to get on with it- but they are the people who don't have these hurdles to jump!

I will really make you 'laugh' now when i explain why i think my husband finds all this so hard! Basically he has a son from his 1st marriage who has aspergers and seeing that my husband has terrible eyecontact,no interest in other peoples interests,poor empathy,fixed ideas/routines,'jumps down my throat' if i 'say the wrong thing'(literal),and numerous other things that make me think he's aspergic too. (however i am the one that was very Autie as a child and i still think that no-one else is like me....a very aspie way of feeling- have you noticed that when i post i use capitals/quotes etc- i think this is cos i am worried i may be sounding abrupt or offend someone- this is after years of being told i was wrong (again a bit aspie- in that you learn to 'fit in'...so who knows really!!!In addition my dad seems very aspie too....maybe everyone i am related to is!!!!...what hope is there!!! (i am joking .....a bit!)

Seriously.... I am grateful every day that my boys choose to cuddle me- that is how i KNOW they are happy with me! I know there is one thing they'd like to change is how easily I GET DISTRACTED and this in turn affects how quickly i respond to their needs...which adds to the chaos of their day....when my 'forgetfulness' (hence the nickname they gave me!) causes their routines to fall apart!!!This is my last message tonight- i must get 4 packed lunches and uniforms ready for the morning...as usual i wanted to go to 'mumsnet' instead!!!Night night Eulalia!x

Mrs Forgetful, just thought I would say that you sound like a great Mum, with the way you've put so much thought into different things that please each of your ds's! Give yourself a big pat on the back from me!

MrsFOrgetful, just had to say that there's nothing my ASD son likes more than a walk round the local shops and streets. Although he likes parks and playgrounds (I don't L() he is just as happy if not more going to the local shops. Don't worry about trying to create interesting and exciting things for them to do if it doesn't interest them. I have spent quite some time in the last year finding and getting into out-of-school activities as my son is now 8 and he needs physical and fun activities, no point in being home by 4.30pm! There's bound to be some activities locally for SEN kids but just take your time to find them and, more important, decide if they're worth the aggro.

jUST TO MAKE YOU LAUGH....I over slept this morning and got out of bed at 8.10am....can you imagine the chaos with getting any 3 boys ready for school and out the door by 8.35....let alone those with aspergers/adhd!!!???!!! Funnily enough though as usual they were bril....and THEY were thrilled to bits as they hate breakfast...and guess what - we had to skip it (What a BAD mum) so they went off with empty tums- but it was one of those mornings when i did contemplate not waking any of them and just curling back up in bed!Trouble is,if i did it once i think it'd be too tempting to do it again!

jUST TO MAKE YOU LAUGH....I over slept this morning and got out of bed at 8.10am....can you imagine the chaos with getting any 3 boys ready for school and out the door by 8.35....let alone those with aspergers/adhd!!!???!!! Funnily enough though as usual they were bril....and THEY were thrilled to bits as they hate breakfast...and guess what - we had to skip it (What a BAD mum) so they went off with empty tums- but it was one of those mornings when i did contemplate not waking any of them and just curling back up in bed!Trouble is,if i did it once i think it'd be too tempting to do it again!

bet they loved you then mrsforgetful