I think my kids are so lucky

[Chummybud1]

i am writing this and trying to word it carefully so I hope I don't offend anyone.

Where we live there are no sn schools, so all the children regardless of needs go to the same school where there needs are met.

My own son has Dcd and has just started high school. His needs don't require sn school.

I just think my kids are so lucky to have the opportunity to mix with children with such a range of sn.

For instance my non sn dd2 who is 8 has a deaf boy in her class. He has a signing teacher And my dd2 has been taught to sign.

In my sons school there is a wee girls with down syndrome, another boy who is autistic, a boy with aspergers, and a few others with various needs but am not sure of diagnosis. There is also a 16 yr old girl who is mentally much younger.

The result of this is that all the children here are very accepting of children with sn. they play together, they work together, they go on trips together etc etc

Don't get me wrong the school has all the usual problems, bickering, falling out, even occasional bullying (not to the sn kids) but I just feel the kids here are so accepting of sn.

I am just grateful that my kids will grow up understanding that although people have differences we are all just people and that they won't be afraid of people who are sn or disabled.

I see her school years as being for her, so that she can learn and gain as many life skills as possible not so that she can help other kids become more accepting of others with additional needs. That is the parent's role.

I totally see your point vjg13 Special schools shouldnt close and the marvelous work they do on the importance of life skills is priceles.

But I would also like to see Special/mainstream combined in some way at our local schools. If government actually put their hands in their pockets and provided full sensory rooms for SN children and the necessary equipment needed and staff within that school setting. A regular whole talk on SN just like they do with bullying would also help matters of understanding. I would like my DS to remain MS (dont really know how its all going to pan out with mine) and mix so he could put life skills learnt into practice.

The sad thing is that special schools are so few and far between. Should my son have to go to one then we would have to travel miles to get there. That in itself is fine as I would do the best for him whatever it takes. BUT that also means that friendships inside of school cannot necessarily be maintained outside of school due to everyone being so far apart. He wouldnt be able to join any clubs in our area because it would be far too late when he gets back. So at the end of his time there and he is grown up he would still have to face the world full of NT people in his local area with no friends as they have already palled up in mainstream.

I realise its a parents role as you say but unfortunately parents that I have found in playgrounds are so biased and misinformed. So if understanding of working togther and teamwork was also done in an educational setting at least children would have a chance at having more compassion than hearing the crap from their mothers/fathers.

Teak I do agree that mainstream school is not suitable for all kids. I never once said all kids should go to school together or that sn school are not a necessity. And I think it is shocking that children are in ms that when it's not beneficial to them I just feel that a lot of kids both sn and non sn would benefit from being given more opportunity to mix.

I did say in an earlier post that due to expense it probably isn't feasable but that doesn't mean it would not be beneficial.

I can also dream...

I agree coff or even if more after school activities were aimed at allowing kids to mix. All the council run facilities here are for either or, non have the facilities for all children.

I don't know coff33 Locally one of the special schools is moving to a mainstream site (special school parents not that happy about it). One of the things that will be mixed is lunchtimes which I think is a terrible idea.

I recently had lunch in ds1's school. The kids went up to get their own lunch, one boy in ds1's class didn't want anything on offer so after standing there refusing everything the kitchen staff decided to make him an omelette which he loved. Meanwhile some of the children were having real problems staying at the table, partly because of the noise (far quieter than a mainstream setting) so the teachers had things like thomas the tank engine books (for 12 year olds) and other favourite items to teach sitting. Because it was a smallish safe environment the children could do jobs such as fetching cutlery and scraping plates and cleaning tables. I really couldn't see it working at all in mainstream and I sat there very very grateful that it isn't my son's school that is moving to a mainstream site because I really think he would lose many of the learning opportunities I saw there (the teachers really do use every bit of the day to teach).

I agree on parents to. When I was a kid my friends sister had very bad cp. She went school in the morning came back in afternoon. Opif I had not been around her at no point would I have been around sn kids even though there was ash school built at the bottom of our school playing field. We never mixed with the kids there. This why so many adults are stand ofgish maybe even a little wary. They are not being bad it's just hard for them. So surely we should be fighting so our kids grow up with a better understanding so they are not stand offish and are more accepting when they become adults.

A lot of so called SN activity session can't cope with things like teenagers in nappies though (which is fairly run of the mill for kids with complex needs) so I can't really see a mainstream activity dealing with that.

I don't think mainstream and sn school should be merged on a day to day school basis. As I agree this could lead to more heart break, and sn kids needs range so drastically that they cannot possibly be met, but surely in the correct environment it would be beneficial. Obviously this is not going to work for every kid but surely for those who are able should be given the chance.

Oh yes, but it's generally harder these days to get a special school education than a mainstream one (which isn't necessarily all that well done as it's done on the cheap). And often I find that activities my son could supposedly access are completely unsuitable.

When I said I disagreed I just meant that IME some of the children with special needs at the school you mentioned will not be having their needs met and if I was one of those parents I would not consider myself lucky.

As part of the government rebuilding schools programme in this area, some MS high schools are now located on the same sites as a special high school. I think they share some of the same facilities but essentially operate as different schools and have no idea how well this works. It may sound cynical but the motivation behind it was more of being able to sell off one site rather than inclusion.

Chummybud, I wasn't having a go just expressing a different opinion.

vjg - that's what saved my school. The redevelopment value of the land the other special school was on was much higher than the redevelopment value of the land my son's school is on. So we kept the separate school site (hoorah!)

I am also glad my DD is going to special school, her MS nursery made a real effort to include her but the gulf between her and the other kids was just growing bigger and bigger, they didn't include her except to mother her in a really overbearing way or to tell me "I know DD doesn't speak, DD makes a big mess" etc. Am much happier she will be with her peers.

I agree she wasn't getting her needs met there..more often than not she'd be fastened into her chair to stop her running around or in another room. It was a matter of educating the other kids and just trying to get her to join in where she could, rather than education targeted at HER which it will be at new school, I hope.

Must also mention how hideous it is as a parent at sports day/nativity etc, where all the kids are performing much better than your child who is strapped into a chair or wandering around

I agree there has a been a real problem in the last 15 years or so, where a vociferous minority of parents have campaigned to give all children the right to be educated in a MS school. Most of the children concerned had physical disabilities rather than LD. The politicians jumped on to this bandwagon, calling it a moral right.

What happened in practice was that it became an excuse for LAs to close hundreds of MLD schools and force nearly all MLD children to move to MS schools. A lot of concentrated expertise was lost and many of the most vulnerable children are now taught by the least qualified people in schools, TAs. It may be a cost saving but it has meant that OTs, SALTs, SEN teachers and experienced LSWs who used to work with children at school are now spread very thinly across MS schools for very occasional sessions; therapy is virtually non-existent and assessments and monitoring only have become the norm.

Now, personally this huge change has benefitted my DS who has been able to go to MS school with his two brothers and has not just coped, but succeeded. 20 years ago he would have had no option but to go to a MLD school. These days he had no option but to go to a MS school. Neither scenario is ideal. Choice is as restricted as ever and for those vulnerable children who get eaten alive in MS it is terrible.

There needs to be a happy medium with true choice, well trained staff in MS if appropriate for a child and concentrated expertise in SN if appropriate for a child. Unfortunately this is the most expensive option so it is a dream.

I am definitely not anti SN school, they are fantastic, warm and excellent places. But I can also see that giving no-one the choice of MS does mean that prejudices will continue in society. Children should be placed appropriately, in the right place for them, but this seems to be a pipe dream.

I appologise bug I just felt that i had been misunderstood and that I was saying that sn schools should close. For many of the kids at my sons school it is wrong for them. They are not provided what they need, don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic school doing it's best. I also agree that a lot of schools are being closed and merged for the wrong reason ie money including a lot of sn schools and all these super secondary school which is wrong. I feel in an ideal world every kid would get every facility they needed but that's not possible.

I only posted my original post in reflection to my sons day out school. He has Dcd, quite sever but not severe enough to attend sn school. He gets loads of help at his school that he wouldn't get in other ms schools due to them having sn kids there. Anyway on Friday he goes on an activity with only other sn kids, again only available in this circumstance. He came home and we were discussing the other kids, and how different they all are. And how he has differences. Then my dd 2 came in and was showing me her new sign language, she learns through having a deaf boy in her class, and I just thought how lucky they were and I was to be given this opportunity. They are seeing first hand the difficulties other have as well as all the fun times. They see the tantrums, the laughter, the fear and others here accept my son for who he is. I just felt more kids deserved this chance. For example if all kids were taught sign language and were shown how this can help other kids, how much difference would it make.

I am truly sorry if I offended anyone was not my intention and I most certainly did not mean too.

YOu didn't offend me, your post was nice :)

saintly I can see what you are saying and yes mealtimes and playground times are the worse and the least supervised and the most stressful of all times for a sn child.

I dont mean mixed as in a whole everybody in the same basket senario. What I am thinking is Special school doing what they do (brill job) and MS doing their bit. But involvment more between the two.

Such as involving NT children in going to "the other side" and getting involved in helping with role play activities, hands on art sessions as a team things like that. So they come out with at least the knowledge that being "special" is not to be laughed at or scared of. Those chosen wisely could then maybe set an example for the other NT kids. Maybe having a buddy scheme with some sn/nt and actually going out to playground together out of timetable time just a small number. It just could help the stigma of it all to go away one day. I wouldnt mind my ds being part of it.

Teachers should instead of just going on a course or just having a visitor with ideas on looking after a particular sn child or reading books should be sent to the special school side for actual hands on training. On a monthly rota. So should college students that are training to be teachers. If understanding was learnt maybe we wouldnt have so many hard nosed teachers that I have met.

I dunno I have been writing this on and off for the last 45 mins whilst doing tea and sorting out a stressy DS so none of it probably makes sense and probably x posted a million times

Coff33, my super long post crossed with everyone!

@ Ellen!

I agree with Ellon, every child should be placed in school as an individual in the correct school to meet their needs. I feel that the government closed many sn school, placed many children in ms school, promising they would back it up with more staff and more facilities including TA, then cut all these backs, which has left many children in schools, unable to cope and without the necessary help. Before moving to where I live now, my son when he was very little was given 1 to 1 to help with daily school life. What this actually panned out to be was a couple hours a week shared with other children. Luckily none of their needs were too severe, as none of them gained much from their extra help.

Thanks fanjo

Coff you managed to say exactly what I have been trying to say, thankyou

.............I did?............good