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SN children

Here are some suggested organisations that offer expert advice on special needs.

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Original poster

Painful stools

29 replies

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 10:38

Not a very pleasant subject so sorry about that but just want some advice from you girls if poss.

Due to the low muscle tone in children with Down's Syndrome going to the toilet can be a difficult process.
Charlotte passes a stool about twice a week - ish.

Anyway I had her at work with me yesterday and she started to make her 'oh no I'm having a poo' cry - an unmistakable cry that tears at my heart. Anyway it took about 10 minutes to come out - I had her over my shoulder with one leg bent right up and I had to really help her get it out - and it made her bleed. Ugghhh, sorry - pause while my stomach unknots. It's so distressing for us both.

Anyway what I want to ask is - apart from the high fibre stuff - all bran, prunes etc - what can I do to SOFTEN her stools to make them less painful to pass? I know about lactulose but she is a nightmare to give medicine to - a REAL nightmare - it just goes everywhere and you end up having to give her 3 baths a day as it's like glue and gets everywhere including her hair so it's a really messy job.

Any other ideas girls - please???

I'm going to post this in health too for those mums who may have an idea but don't always visit this thread.

Thomcat xx

OP posts:

dinosaur · 15/10/2003 10:45

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 10:46

lots of fluids- but you probably know that already. Also maybe worth trying homeopathy- it's helped us with various things and won't do any harm. Or alternatively- maybe a cranial osteopath (not sure about that one- but they were very good at clearing ds2's cacky mucusy lungs)

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 10:46

oh yes flaxseed oil could be good.

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 10:53

I used to buy a really old fashioned thing from boots and I'm trying to remember what it was. Mineral oil maybe? I wasn't buying for constipation- I used it in the lab for egg culture- but I used to get 50 questions from the Boots staff (they obviously thought I had an eating disorder). could be worth asking the pharmacist- although I wouldn't imagine it would taste very nice- pretty gloopy and yuck.

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 10:53

Thanks very much. It's so great when you get great advice and so quickly to a problem. I'm going to find a homeopath in my area now on the web and I'll also book the cranial osteopath as well - been meaning to do that for some time for her glue ear so.... thanks very much.

Is flaxseed the same as linseed? I've got a bottle of that at home - worst thing I've ever tasted in my life! Tried putting it on her weetabix and got the blank from her, couldn't get her to go near it!

OP posts:

lou33 · 15/10/2003 11:06

Can't help you this time Tc, Rory is the same. He takes a day to pass one. Lactulose he hates and he already has loads of watery based drinks, lots of fibre etc. I have a stronger medication to try but am reluctant to try it. I'd be interested to see if there is anything I haven't tried (can't afford cranial osteopathy).

codswallop · 15/10/2003 11:07

cant you get it on the NHS if you see your Gp?

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 11:12

Lou - come to london for the day??? We can meet up and take the kids together. It's in Harley St so you could get a train to Kings Cross or Euston and you pay what you can afford. Last time I gave then £20 I think. My friend who has loads of money gave them £50 and another friend gave nothing.
Let me know what you think and we can find a day we're both free and I'll book it for us both.
TC xx

OP posts:

Davros · 15/10/2003 11:25

At the Royal Free, when they see SEN children and especially ASD children who have gut problems in the Paediatric Gastro dept they suggest Oil of Figs which is an old fashioned laxative. Once the gut has been "cleared out" they suggest pro-biotics - acidopholus and something else I can't remember but could find out (available from The Nutricentre). You get a follow up with the clinic at some point but your GP might do just as well. I have known mums who give the Oil of Figs any time they thing trouble is brewing and I'm not keen on that as I don't think giving laxatives long term without supervision can be good. Maybe the probiotics would be worth trying?

Davros · 15/10/2003 11:26

P.S. you could visit the Nutricentre too whcih is not far from Harley St

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 11:28

So how do you give then this oil of figs and can I just get it from a health food shop?
I'll have a quick look on the net.
Thnaks for all this - I'll try as many of these solutions (not all at once though!) as I can and see which works best for her.

OP posts:

lou33 · 15/10/2003 11:29

Tc would love to, but ds wouldn't let anyone touch his head that he hadn't met a hundred times .

Davros · 15/10/2003 11:39

BTW, cup of tea does it for me! Might be worth a try?

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 11:56

lou- the cranial osteopath's don't always work on the head- for gut problems I would imagine they would work on the tummy iyswim. I'd be interested to know if it works.

My mother always says "brown sugar" but I'm sure that's not a long term solution!

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 11:58

Lou - they don't actually run their hands over his head. They'll lie him down on a couch and their hands kind of glide over his whole body - they don't really touch but they are close so I suppose it would have the same effect with him. What a shame.

Davros - tea - ??!!

OP posts:

Davros · 15/10/2003 12:05

Er yes, find tea very effective. It may be because its often the first thing to hit my tum in the morning so its just the "gastro-colic reflex"

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 12:09

Tea gets me going as well

Jimjams · 15/10/2003 12:09

Not good for iron absorption though

lou33 · 15/10/2003 12:22

Yeh it would have the saem effect TC, shame cos I think a day out with you would be a right laugh!

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 12:40

Another time then Lou.

Davros - JimJams - don't know about tea - but in my rough neck days (!) a coffee and a fag worked wonders! (Apologies to anyone who still uses this method!! )

OP posts:

fio2 · 15/10/2003 13:46

he, he, he - tea does it for me aswell. Lots of garlic too My dd has hypotonia and we used to have problems but not anymore. I used to find plenty of milk and water drinks, also boots used to do herbal baby drink, dont know if they still do - it was camomile we used to have. Also plenty of yogurts used to make it easier. I find my dd is more regular when using Efalex (fish oils), could this be the case or is it my imagination?

Original poster

ThomCat · 15/10/2003 13:57

Well she drinks at least 1 Avent bottle of water a day, but quite often have to top it up, plus her morning & evening milk. Has melon, inc water melon at least once or twice a week, yoghurts about 3 or times a week, dried prunes - some soaked in water overnight. Anyway bought prune juice at lunchtime and will try cranial osteopath and homeopeth as well. Due to blood yesterday also taking her in to GP.

OP posts:

Caroline5 · 15/10/2003 20:49

Sorry if this is totally obvious and you've already done it, but have you tried hiding the lactulose in her drinks? This is the only way we can get it into dd2 who has had the same problem virtually since birth. She also has to have suppositories if she hasn't been after 3 days. Don't really want to use them, but it seems the only way at the moment to keep her comfortable. We've tried prune juice and high fibre cereals etc but nothing seems to work. Hope you find something that helps soon.

Also perhaps an anal anaesthetic - can't remember the name of it, but I think you can get it over the counter. Combined with lactulose, this can help if your dd is getting to associate bowel movements with pain - sorry if too much information!!

sunchowder · 15/10/2003 21:17

I have been trying to think of this formula all day and can't remember the name of it. It is natural and wonderful, but for the life of me I can't remember the name of it. Natural stool softener, not a laxative. I will try to keep thinking. You can mix the powder in a pudding or applesauce.

Great advice on the thread, cranio-osteo is excellent, Lou33, the therapists work on all types of children with all sorts of problems, they will children that have autesim (sp?) and everything--they have a very gentle way and I believe if you have the courage to try, maybe your DD wouldn't mind, you could promise a great lunch or treat, something like that. I don't want to seem like I am pressuring you at all, you know the best for your babies! They do work on all sort of problems and have great success.

Davros - totally believe in probiotics, I wrote a bunch on another thread, bifidus is the other one I believe you were trying to remember. I am trying to start to read yet another book called The Second Brain, Your Gut has a mind of its own by Michael D. Gershon, MD. Apparently our bowels have brain cells also--I wanted to understand IBS a bit better as I had started to become ill with it myself.

Anytime there is any blood in the stool they always want you to see the GP, in my experience it could be a small fissure, a little crack in the wall that will bleed and break open during a large, hard BM. Especially if the blood is bright red, but it is always best to have it looked atit is a shame that this will probably just add more tension and fear when yet another person is touching her ahole.
Good luck with this tomorrow Thomcat and let us know. I will keep trying to think of this remedy that we used with my DD.

lou33 · 15/10/2003 21:46

Sunchowder, ds just wouldn't tolerate it. I think he is fed up with the amount of people he already has to put up with (pyhsio, ot, paediatrician, neuro), and it is his way of saying enough. Actually he only stays quiet for 2 of the ones I mentioned above (and that took 6 months of perseverence), the others he usually screams through the entire appointment.

Blood around the stool isn't usually anything to worry about, as you say, it happens with every bm for ds2.

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