Can a child have ADHD and or ASD and perfectly well?........

[makemineaquadruple]

Hi everyone.

I only ask because when we were first concerned with DD when she was 2 1/2 nearly 3 an HV came to see her and one of the first things she said was if she sleeps well then there's no way that she could have ADHD. At the time I didn't really question it as she knew more about it than I did.

We were thinking that she could possibly have ASD. Due to delayed speech, meltdowns and poor social skills. Very friendly, but doesn't understand yet how to make a friend. She's very friendly and excited. She doesn't usually just walk anywhere, She'll skip and bounce(hence the nickname tigger) She is now 4.7 and it is improving. She is being referred to a SALT, but the gp suggested that her behaviour could just be down to immaturity and occasional glue ear.

Having said all that, recently i've noticed that her behaviour seems to point more and more towards ADHD. The only thing is, she's a good sleeper(most of the time) Can this ever happen? Or was the HV right when she said that no child with ADHD is a good sleeper because their brains are just too active to settle down?

Also, it would be really useful if someone could describe their childs ADHD symptoms apart from the usual hyperactivity and short attention span.

Many thanks. Would really appreciate some feedback.

Oh dear. I messed the title up. Obviously I meant "and sleep perfectly well".

My ASD son has always slept well, don't know about ADHD though

I do think the statement "NO WAY" they could have ADHD is abit sweeping though. Also Health Visitor's are in 'no way' qualified to make that sort of diagnosis. If your worried about DD go to your doctor get a proffesional to look at her.

don't know much about ADHD but there is such a thing as ADD (attention deficit disorder) without the hyperactivity. you might want to look into sensory issues (that can be part of ASD or separate), as sometimes a kid can be undersensitive to movement so can crave movement/spinning/twirling etc.

Thanks leiela. We are getting the ball rolling as it were, but just thought i'd ask if anyone could shed some light on that, more than likely, rather controversial statement.

I think the trick is not to try and make a diagnosis yourself.

You know there is something wrong, it's someone else's job to work out what that thing is. I would certainly push to get her seen, write down all your concern's and keep a track of the 'odd' little things you notice it really makes it easier to explain to others.

total, i've never heard anyone describe the twirling etc as a symptom of being undersensitive to movement. I only ever hear the word "oversensitive" with regards to my dd. That's really got me thinking actually. Thank you.

Do you know if this is something that can ever be controlled?

What is the quality of her sleep like though, my Dd1 who was almost dx'ed ADHD when she was 9, could turn a duvet round in it's over and used to be out of her sleepsuit when she was tiny, simply due to the amount of wriggling she did in the night.

She was never still even though she slept for a reasonable length of time eg 9 or 10 hours per night.

As far as sensory seeking Dd3 does that all the time, she bounces and moves constantly, while I was reading your thread she was jogging around the house clapping and counting.

When we walk anywhere I have to allow extra time for her to walk on every drive , drain cover and different texture on the pavement, she is compelled to touch and feel everything.

I am pretty certain she has some kind of ASD but probably not ADHD.

Hope this helps a bit.

The HV is talking a load of tosh! Yes, a child with ADHD can sleep well. It will obviously depend on the severity of their disorder. My son is dx moderate ADHD and sleeps very well, and always has. ADD is the same as ADHD, but without the hyperactivity.

Hi! DS1 (6) has AS and ADHD (as checked out in a multi-disciplinary assessment) and sleeps pretty well, at about 10 hours a night. The only problem is he wakes up ridiculously early (5/6 am) and twitches and tries to wake everyone else up by making noises.

Think you need to see a OT and look into sensory processing. Dd2 has autisim but also Sensory processing disorder. She is some days off the wall, twirling, running, jumping, screeching and loads more. It's very hard to explain it all but worth looking into :)

Sorry make I forgot to list his symptoms of ADHD. Apart from being lively most of the time ie: chatty, moving from room to room if not occupied with TV etc. Can be 'in your face', over enthusiastic (a bit like a puppy, boisterous, but harmless). Wants things done now. Doesn't like to wait his turn in a queue (but is getting there). Persistent if he wants something done (also getting much better and realising others have a voice). Quite impulsive ie: if he wants to get up in the classroom and get something, he will .. no thoughts about the fact that he shouldn't. Very sociable (has friends), but sometimes doesn't realise he's annoying or over the top. Gets over excited and doesn't know when to stop. Can get frustrated if he can't do something well. For my ds2, all the above is on the mild end of the disorder and is manageable. It would depend on which end of the ADHD spectrum a child is as to how severe the symptoms are. Some symptoms of ADHD can overlap with ASD, although our paed made it clear the main symptoms were very different. ASD was ruled out for my ds. Some of the reasons our paed gave for this was: he had no repetitive or obsessional behaviours, he had very vivid imagination, knew how to make friends and build relationships (more importantly he wanted to). He was able to transition from one setting to another easily without any notice. He was flexible in his thinking and attitude. He made good eye contact (although we were told many children with ASD do). Was responsive to a two way conversation. He was in control of his emotions ie: did not tantrum or meltdown. He did not suffer from anxieties and was not sensory seeking or sensitive to his environment. Hope that all makes sense.

My ADHD son slept well. He needed to, to regain his energy so he could bounce of the walls, floor and ceiling all day!

My ds has AS and ADHD and had always slept like a rock. He used to fidget and squirm and run all day but would still sleep soundly for a good ten hours every night.

That's changed in the last year as he started medication for ADHD and it takes him a while to drop off at night, but still, overall, I'd say he's a good sleeper.

Sounds like the HV is talking in stereotypes .

Oh, and there will be countless times ahead when you will know more than the professionals who are meant to be advising you. Don't assume that just because they're wearing a badge it means they're better informed.

Hello Make mine a quadruple. You could be talking about my DD they sound so similar. Mine is overally chatty and friendly to adults but cannot make friends easily feels awkward chatting to children this is because she had severe glue ear and was deaf practically until age of 3 when vents went in. Her speech has been delayed but she has been attending SALT and has caught up largely but still not quite there with the art of social conversation but we practice all the time with her. Because of this lack of social skill she was incorrectly dx by an ed pysch as having ASD who ignored all her inattention and restless behaviour we had 2 other seperate private DX and they confirmed she is what they call ADHD-PI (predominately inattentive) the new name for ADD. If you google ADHD-PI and ADHD on wikipedia I found both those sights really helpful. My DD has always been a brilliant sleeper 12 hours every night and that's because she has been on the go all day and is super tired we also have a consistant bedtime routine so nice relaxing bath every night story and wind down and that switches her to off mode.
The thing I found really helpful was to look at the symptoms on the internet for each condition and to see which one fitted by DD more it can get a bit confusing but ADHD-PI ticks every single box with ASD she only ticks a couple and some of the symptoms are interlinked. HTH

coogar, thanks for listing the other syptoms. It really helps.

Gigglebiz, Glad to hear the your dd has caught up a lot with her speech. It's good to know because dd will be assessed any day now by a SALT.
I can't understand why ADD has bascially been lengthened to ADHD-PI. The thing is my dd is hyperactive. I've certainly seen worse, but when she's in one of those modes, it doesn't matter what I do, she wont stop. She is just completely in her own little fantasy world and when I ask her to stop or calm down, she'll either just say no or growl something like "i'll stop IN A MINUTE!!!" Of course a minute to her is really over an hour. God it's draining. Going back to the sleeping thing, she also gets on average 10 or 11 hours a night. She also has a very good bedtime routine. It's bath, story, glass of milk, 2 stories and then bed by 7 or 7:30 at the latest. I'm not sure how she would react without all that. If I didn't do all that with her would she still be bouncing off the walls til breakfast? or would she still be exhausted at the same time regardless of what I did and fall asleep at the same time anyway? Who knows.

Good to know that these "professionals" are useful and giving your the correct information isn't it!!

My dd not long been diagnosed she's 7. Paed didn't even seem that bothered about asking about her sleeping to be honest! He asked how she slept and I said very well although does toss and turn a lot and talks in her sleep excessively but alway sleeps all night through!