FOI Act experts out there - help with S&LT - Moondog if possible!

[fiduciarydealings]

OK, we have S&LT here who, I guarantee have never provided direct therapy to a child with AS and there is clearly a policy of not doing this.

I get the FOI stuff back to do and they are basically refusing to answer this because of s.12(1) FOI i.e. they say there is an exemption where the cost of compliance exceeds appropriate limit.

I can see there is such a provision in the Act but it appears to me that, as all reports are signed off by the head of service, she should be able to provide some guidance.

Moondog (have name changed but we have sons with the same name and have emailed each other before!) aren't there supposed to be monitoring records on stuff like this???

Can you ask the Tribunal to make a direction that the SALT provide her CV (most expert witnesses should do this anyway) and confirm whether and how much direct SALT she has provided for AS?

Or you can ask her on the day remember

Thanks. I've asked for CVs for the last two months. I was asking this question on a department wide basis to demonstrate the existence of a policy but I could just ask that question directly of the S&LT involved.

Thanks. Great idea!

Agnes, how would you phrase that? Something like:

Can you please confirm the number of children with Asperger's Syndrome in a mainstream primary school setting (not including attached specialist units) who you have given direct S&LT therapy to?

Would you go on to confirm what direct S&LT meant e.g. working directly with the child for more than 1 visit a year and planning and monitoring their S&LT programme??

Ask for their care pathway for social communication disorders/ASD/ASC/AS and any other variations you can think of.

Actually, ask for all their clinical care pathways. Look for disparities - there will definitely be some.

There certainly are in our trust.

Thanks I will do.

Ok I was getting confused
If you are asking for a policy FOI might be best unless you suspect no-one in the dept gives direct SALT (certainly the reality here) in which case you might have to approach it for tribunal as a resource issue eg ask the Tribunal to direct the Dept say:
How many FTE SALTS they have
How many who work directly with children with AS
How many children with AS receive direct SALT eg in past 2 years (if you ask for a time limited period be harder to argue too expensive to reply)

Ask the individual SALT who will work with DS for her CV and experience with children with AS eg how many on caseload, how many years worked with children with AS, how many does she currently provide direct SALT

Tribunal will be interested in whether they have the skills and resources to provide for your DS. They won't be interested in general policy because they can always overrule that. eg we got direct SALT ordered without any SALT there saying they would be able to provide it and even though they never do it. If fact we didn't enforce this as we were happy with ABA doing the direct SALT .

You need to make it relevant to your DS or the tribunal will see it as fishing expedition

I would put it on the request for changes form and ask for a direction that the SALT dept provide the following info within eg 14 days and then list what you want to know. You could also do a statement to go with it setting out why you want the info eg that you doubt they have the expertise and resources to provide direct SALT or you doubt promises of SALT will materialise without a tribunal ordering it

If your questions are to show the SALT has not the expertise to write the report I think you are on thinner ground as that is more about credibility of a witness and for the tribunal panel to flush out than for you and might be seen as tactical etc

Thanks Agnes, I am trying to demonstrate that the service here never provides direct S&LT for AS children and this is why they are arguing that the collaborative model suffices. This is what they say about every case.

Yet, if as a S&LT you never work with children with AS in a m/stream setting, how can you say that direct therapy will not be more effective than the indirect model you are offering?

I make the m/stream point because DS has a TA who has no level of training in ASD or S&LT and I think the facts of his situation are crucial - not some hypothetical model of how collaborative working could work.

I'm instructing the representative you did so hopefully she'll find a way through this.

I have posted on another link about TA problems and I am absolutely despairing that 4 months after his statement, facing Tribunal, these idiots know my son has no effective S&LT provision and are still pissing about on this.

Yes sorry read the other thread, you've got a lot on
How long to go until tribunal?

I can see why you are trying to get the info and you are probably right they do not do direct SALT but

1. the tribunal probably know that is the reality UK wide and also why it never appears in NHS reports
2. you can ask those questions / make those points directly at the tribunal
3. you will probably make more mileage keeping it specific to DS and pointing out how TA is out of her depth, how indirect / collab SALT to date has not led to adequate progress, why a more specialist approach is needed, too much time lost already, urgent need to catch up / close gap etc etc

I am worried even if you get direct SALT that the NHS will not actually have anyone with the expertise to deliver it. Many NHS SALTs have no idea how to help children with ASD - they can do phonological probs etc but not the ASD aspect / oddities / lack of motivation / social deficit. I think Moondog once posted and said the average SALT had minimal ASD training

Advocate will help you I am sure.

Thanks Agnes, that is really helpful. I will let that candle burnout for now and see what advocate says.

I completely take your point about not knowing what we are fighting for really in terms of provision but it cannot be worse than he has got at the moment. I think the services struggle with things like AS as they never offer any kind of service to these children (although it doesn't look like they offer much to anyone!). It's all very 'he's got AS what do you expect, that's the nature of his difficulties not to talk to adults'

Tribunal is in about 6 weeks.