TA support very messy, what do you think?

[supermum98]

My ds. with complex needs now has six TA's supporting him in year 7, having had a 1;1 arrangement which didn't work, I think because TA found it too stressful, and didn't agree with him being in main-stream, (he has MLD and PD) and she said he wasn't accessing curriculum. Senco now completely changed his support, so not only does he have 6 TA's looking after him, they are not curriculum led, so for eg. he has 4 lessons of science and each lesson he has a change of TA. How on earth can this work? There is no continuity. No TA will have an intimate knowledge of my childs diverse needs, training will be a night-mare in my opinion, no TA will have intimate curriculum knowledge either as they are all doing a bit of this and a bit of that. He must loose time as he can't just leave the lesson with his TA and move on to next, as has to wait for TA change.
I was so upset on Friday, my first instinct was to get him out and home-ed. but I know he needs social contact. If I had been told they would arrange support like this I would not have sent him there. We were advised that children with complex needs should have more intimate TA support. He had two TA's at primary and that worked well. I wouldn't mind six TA's so much if they were curriculum led.
I have voiced my concerns and have been told by all give it a go. But I think we didn't hit the deck running in September, there are lots of issues, I don't want to wait another year to see if yet another initiative works, they don't seem to share my view that we haven't got time to faff about.
Really getting me down, not sleeping. I'd appreciate your views.

Oh and by the way only one TA of the six is now communicating in his communication book, so less transparency already and was told by PD support teacher, that we might not be able to do Numicon because two TA's doing maths with him now and can't dip in and out of it. Numicon was the only Maths approach that worked with him at primary school. So already it looks like having more TA's is going to limit interventions. I have been pushing since Sept. to get mind-mapping going, but again, what hope is there when got 6 TA's to take it on board.

No hope at all.
This will not work, not in a million years.
The Nuicon thing defies belief.

Yes - this will not work.

Move school or HE.....

If you HE then you can focus on teaching social skills independently of teaching him academic skills.....

You will find other opportunities for him to interact with kids outside of school.....

I personally think HE is the last thing most kids with SN need.

I think they are setting him up to fail, especially if he has asd! (Consistency critical for asd). A similar tactic was used to get rid of my son at his last school. You said the original TA was vocal in her view he should be in a special school?

Is he statemented? If so demand a meet with the lea officer & perhaps see a lawyer. They've already named one intevrvention that will stop him accessing a core subject = maths via numicon.

Agree with Indigo - new school or home ed.

Consistency is critical for any child.
Or adult for that matter.
I'd be insisting on contributions from each TA too. Ask them to sign and date each so you can keep track.

I have bitter experience of this type of thing (ie. seeing schools do things which I know will leave my Ds totally unsupported).

I would want to have a meeting with those who made the decision and ask them to outline the benefits of this system to you.

Try not to argue against it at this meeting, simply ask them what benefits they see and what evidence they have for thinking this. (try to keep calm-which is not easy!). Make lots of notes and concentrate on their arguments, rather than arguing the points at this stage.

Then you can go home and think about your response in your own time. I always find it really hard to respond to them in the meeting itself, as I'm too emotionally charged, so I let them do the talking, then go home and process my own thinking on it.

Once you've weighed up the arguments (theirs and yours, for and against), you set it all out on paper and send copies to everyone-LEA (if there's anyone left there!), governor in charge of SEN, HT, DH, SENCO, Year Head, everyone, and ask that your arguments/suggestions be considred in another meeting on...(you sugest 2 dates for them to choose from-why should they always tell you when to come in for meetings?).

This way, you are wrestling control from them and putting yourself in a position of power.

You then set the 'tone' of the meeting and put all your points across, explaining point by point why you think this won't work and what you would like to see instead.

(At least, that's what I'd do if I had the discipline, and what my parenting course last week suggested. In reality, I just go in and shout alot then burst into tears! )

I think 6 TAs could work if subject based, but a mish mash like you've described is obviously a load of rubbish. I, personally, could not home educate my DS as although I'm a TA I'm far too emotionally attached and have very little patience with my own DS! and I think that the social interaction of school shouldn't be undervalued.

My DS is starting secondary in Sept so I'll be watching this thread with interest. Although I know he'll be supported in most lessons I hadn't thought to ask whether TAs were subject based, I had assumed they would be! Thanks for the heads up!

Have you spoken to Parent Partnership about this. They may know how other schools in your area operate in this situation and could give guidance on best practice.
Have you seen your DS's IEP. It will set out how they are going to help him achieve his targets - and this should include things that are supposed to have been put in place such as Numicon. If they are not using these methods then he clearly won't reach his targets.
The TA system at secondary schools is fraught with difficulties. My DS (HF ASD) had 2 different TA's at primary school but when he went to secondary it was a different TA in every lesson - not just every subject. He didn't even know the names of some of them there were so many and clearly some of them had not been made aware of his needs/triggers. We have had to file a number of complaints about individual TA's - all of which were fortunately quickly addressed by school - including one being removed from working with my DS ever again.
I suggest you write a list of what you want for DS, arrange a meeting with SENCO, head of year and one of senior management team (if different from those listed) and your sons Key Worker - if he has one (which he should have so that someone is co-ordinating the TA's and your DS and you have a known point of contact who is up to speed on DS's needs.)
Get Parent Partnership involved and see if they will support you at the meeting.

Hi all much appreciate lengthy replies. It seems all of you feel this is a negative situation. I have just been allocated a PP supporter (x Senco at Secondary). We had a meeting last week, she came to it with me, but didn't seem perturbed about TA change, although hasn't seen final timetable.
Have I got any rights in this, other than to express my concerns? Other schools in area, either have curriculum led TA's, or allocate 1 or 2 TA's, or have a small lower ability class, run by teacher and a few TA's, but where my ds. would not have his 1:1. I have never heard of this kind of arrangement. When I asked Senco, why she had changed my ds support, she said that she had 20 kids with worse difficulties than my ds. Why this was relevant I don't know. The PD support service are trying to placate me.
I can only assume that it is arranged like this to suit the school and to give Senco more control as I have no contact now with any TA's. as everything has to go through Senco. Last TA seems to have gone on long-term sick leave, which may explain why things went wrong there. The trouble is my ds is happy there and I can see other problems with the other options open to me. Will take amistill sexy advice to begin with. THought would talk to ed psych.too. EllenJane keep in touch with me as you are only just behind me.
Will talk to PP supporter tomorrow.
Cheers.

:(

Does not sound good.

I guess your only option is to keep talking to the SENCO and insisting this arrangement needs to be reviewed because it is not meeting DSs needs.....

Yes I think u r right indigo bell. My worry is how do I prove it is not working with so little transparency and who is going to monitor it? I struggle to get any notes home and when I do, they arn't great. Going to send an e-mail to pd support teacher detailing my concerns now. I have been told that pp often try and butter up school, so it may be that was what all that was about when my pp supporter, seemed to welcome the TA change. It may be though she hasn't appreciated how bitty the support is.

What is your opinion on reason given for change- 'I have 20 children with more difficulties than yours'. I really don't know what to make of that.

Like you said, it is not your problem if she has 20 children worse than yours.

What you need to do (but this is hard) is set up proper SMART targets for your DS to achieve in 6 weeks.

Then when he fails to achieve his targets you have evidence that the support isn't working........

(SMART
Specific
Measurable
Achievable
Relevant
Timebound)

ie DS will be able to add 2 digit numbers by 1st march.......

Targets could be academic or otherwise. ( DS will have no meltdowns during school. DS will organise himself for his next class.....)

That is absolutely crap. I am gobsmacked actually. If they aren't doing numicon with him then what are they doing instead?
'I have 20 children with more difficulties than yours' that's irrelevant - his needs haven't changed.

Thanks guys, there are no smart targets on IEP at all !! It says ' to gain more fluency in reading' etc etc. Do you know if they put non core subjects on IEP's at secondary? ie. science, geog etc.

You are right though, it might focus minds a bit if I push back on Senco and say I'm not happy with IEP's. Did point this out in meeting last week, but haven't been called in to review IEP's.

Do you know if IEP's are for short-terms or long-terms, because if short then technically I should be called in to review next week I guess.

IEPs should be for short term specific goals to chip away at the broader goals on the statement, otherwise how will any progress be measured? They should be reviewed with you ideally every term or twice a year as a minimum. They can include social targets as well as academic. Gain more fluency in reading, woolly. Achieve a 4 month reading age gain in 4 months, specific. Then how, by a suitable reading intervention programme like 'Catch up' 4 x weekly for 1/2 an hour. Improve inference, ok for statement, IEP to state tool to be used (eg Language for Thinking) who to do it, how it can be measured and what progress to aim for. It's not always achieved by the review, but targets can be made more realistic, or time spent on intervention increased etc.

Supermum, examples I've given are used in primary schools, may not be suitable for Y7, but you get the general drift.

Ok thanks EJ re. IEP's have had reply from PD support teacher re. 6TA's, she feels it is a lot too, but says perhaps they had to respond quickly because previous TA had to be taken off the job. It seems they think they should review at next meeting in July. I don't think will have any hard evidence by then to say whether it is working or not having such a bitty TA resource, but I guess they will have to change his timetable in Sept. so that is the time to try and protest. I feel a whole year has gone and they haven't even left the starting post when it comes to getting things in place at Secondary. I don't think they learnt a thing in transition. EJ you should make sure they hit the decks running in September and make sure TA's have been trained and know what they are doing before your ds gets there in Sept.

Ds is in yr11 and a member of an autism resource he has TA support at all times.
His keyworker provides about 40% of the cover then, there are 2 TAs who cover 20% each and the final 20% is covered by 3 other TAs so he does have 6 TAs over the course of the week.
But each TA covers certain parts of the timetable according to their strengths. His keyworker struggles with Maths because ds is hugely able so she doesn't cover maths, one of his TAs has an English teaching degree so he covers English, another TA ds seems happier to communicate with so she provides the emotional support etc.
I suppose because there is a base then all the TA's are there at breaktimes and lunchtimes and there is no hanging about waiting for a TA because the TA allocation is fitted round the mainstream timetable.
All TAs have my email address and email as and when is needed, if everything is going well I might get a daily email if things are not so good I could get three or four emails and most likely a phone call too.
So multiple TAs can work but there has to be consistency and good communication and organisation all round for it to be successful IME.

Just to add I think it would be very difficult for a TA to cover ds for the whole day tbh as he's draining and if ever there is a TA off due to illness he really struggles but with having others known to him who provide cover then he isn't overwhelmed.

Thanks supermum, how TAs are allocated is one of my top questions, now. Asdx2, your set up it how I naively imagined it would be resourced, with subject based TAs, as my DS is good at maths and average all round, so not likely to be in bottom sets (hopefully.) So the TAs would have to know their subject! I couldn't help anyone with more than very basic French or Biology for example! , but could have a crack at most other subjects up to GCSE.

I can tell you that the reason that I fought for the Autism Resource is because it would be a very different experience had ds gone to the local secondary. There TAs are subject based so he would have a different TA for each subject, TAs congregate in the bottom sets so there was a greater chance of him being placed according to need for TA support rather than where he sat academically. As it is he is top set maths bottom set English and middle for everything else. Ds needs to be able to build a relationship so needs a small number of TAs he knows well rather than plenty of faces he recognises. Luchtime and breaktimes would be covered in learning support by a rota of staff whereas for ds it is the emotional support he receives at these times that enables him to cope with the next lessons. You really do need to pin down the SENCo before you opt for the school as to how your ds will receive the support IME.

Too late now! But there is no ASD resource in my LA at all for secondary, and this school was much the best in terms of any SEN support. My local high achieving comp doesn't even do any lunchtime SEN support or even have it's own rooms beyond a small shoe box office. At least the school I've chosen has done a transition plan, has attended a transition conference, will support my DS initially ft despite only a 15 + 5 hour statement, and has been really positive about my DS attending. He's having 4 extra 1:1 settling visits with the transition TA and they encourage him to take a camera to photograph staff and places. I am getting a really warm feeling from the school which has perhaps lulled me into a false sense of security. This thread has been a wake up call and I will pursue this point. Thanks supermum and asdx2.

I had already had three in the school and a friend was a TA there so I got the lowdown anyway as to how exactly ds would be supported I'm not so sure they'd have been quite as open as what I found out through other sources tbh.

I did query about the fact that he wouldn't be in the bottom sets, and they said that there are 26 hours of lessons a week and they'd turn his 15 +5 lunchtime support into 20 hours of lesson support as they already have a lunchtime 'club.' And initially he'd have FT, but may not need support in his strong subjects or may have 1:2 for a few lessons to make up the time. Suck it and see, which seemed very sensible, as I've no idea how he'll be in secondary. He's had 1:1 only in the mornings and lunchtime since y1 so can survive without it for short periods. But I'd like him to more than survive.

He's always used break and lunchtime as chill out alone time, so may not want to go to the 'club' but again, we'll suck it and see.