Toilet training ASD son aged 3.8? Should I keep on trying?

[dietstartstmoz]

I have posted before, DS is recently dx HFA, although he has developmental delay, speech delay etc. He is verbal and his speech is coming on but he is a long way behind peers. He will be starting mainstream primary in sept. I feel we have been put under pressure by specialist early yrs service to toilet train him, but I don't think he's ready. They really wanted us to have a go, and we have but i'm ready to go back to pull ups.
He has been in pants for weeks now, and isn't too bad with having a wee, but doesn't say he needs to go, he just holds himself. But he usually soils his pants 3/4 times a day and his poo can be very soft. We did have a week or so of more solid poo which made it a whole lot easier, and this week he did do 2 poos at the nursery as the nursery nurse caught him at the right time, we have been bribing him to do it on the loo, and he understood this and did try to go, but when nothing happened he wouldn't sit for long enough. He has had his 'bribe' now .
He has now had a referral to childrens health about the toileting and autism outreach should start working with him soon so i'm hoping they can help.

I think i'm just being lazy and pull ups are so much easier, but we don't seem to be making any 'real' progress and he is still not communicating his need to go to the loo. I don't know schools position yet, but I can see him starting school with pull ups and wipes and requiring changing.
Should we keep going? I think i'm creating more work for myself and more yukky washing.

Sorry, another boring toilet training thread but I just need to ask people who have been through it, thanks.

Well, I am not a HCP but he is obviously not ready!

Also, bear in mind the early years service may be pressuring you because he is starting MS school in Sept.

We have a young boy (6) in my beaver pack. He is at MS and wears pull ups. Just not an issue AFAIK.

Are you bothered whether he is toilet trained by the time he starts school? Can he wipe himself/change the pull ups himself? Will he have a 1-1 TA??

Hmmm, think we started trying around the same time diet and DS1 (3.10) is back in nappies. The first week in pants went quite well with the poo side of things but we had problems with the wee! Just as we had a breakthrough and he did wee in toilet we went on hols with family. DS1 was visibly anxious and holding his wee in. So we put him a nappy on so we could all enjoy the holiday. He is back in nappies now...grrr...think we gave up too easily. He was restless in night too so know he was worried about doing a wee (tho he had nappy on during night).

Is your little man getting stressed or does he have sensory issues etc? If not, would be tempted to carry on as you got to tackle it at some point. I wouldn't feel pressured by early years to get it done by Sept, just small steps in the right direction until your little man feels more confident and can communicate his needs to go.

I am kicking myself for putting DS1 back in nappies as have got to start again now. Luckily, DS1 is still using the toilet. eg. starting a poo and then finishing on toilet, going to toilet after he done wee etc. He started wiping himself last week too so its just a case of getting him to wee in the toilet for us. I have bought loads of thomas and toy story pants in the hope he will be happy to go in pants again!!

I feel your pain, constantly getting the vanish out and soaking pants is no fun (tho I get DH to do that bit, hee hee!!).

Wish I could be more helpful but in similar position and its an easier option to put the nappy on. I would like DS1 to be in pants by Sept tho.

Unsure as to whether you should keep on trying, because unfortunately the wees and poos can end up being almost 2 stages of toilet trainin..When DS started toilet training at 3.5 he couldn't communicate the need to go but would take himself off when he needed a wee. Poos took longer to crack - months longer. So I compromised - nappies for public transport/places where loos weren't easily accessible but otherwise pants (tho official advice tends to be no nappies at all, but I don't drive so didn't want to risk ending up with dirtied bus seats!!!)

Thanks, dietcokegirl-i remember your previous comments. My DS is fine with a wee, and sits on the loo for that, ours is the poo problem. He is just happy to sit in his own mess, and will completely deny he has done it. He is now stopping what he is doing to poo, so if you watch him constantly you can see he is doing it, but there is not always time to get to the loo/potty, and then he says 'I haven't done a poo'. He is not stressed at all, he has some sensory issues but he will not sit for more than the time it takes to do a wee on the loo.
I know it will take longer with him, I just think pull ups are easier and i'm being a bit lazy, but it's the runny poo in pants bit that is yukky every day, and i'm his mom!

Beccarooo- The request for stat assess is being heard this week, so hopefully they will assess him, but it won't be signed off by sept. We have already had a meeting with school, so I guess we need to have another to discuss the toileting, changing. He cannot wipe himself/change himself at all so that will need doing by a member of staff. At the moment we don't know how much 1-2-1 he will have from a TA.
I don't mind if he is still in pull ups in sept, but it would be nice to get past that milestone, and much cheaper too. I guess we'll perservere for a bit loinger, we're off out today though so he will be in pull ups today-with toilet trips!

We desperately tried to potty train my (at that time unDX) DS at 2.6 in time for playgroup. They insisted on him being toilet trained in those days and I was very keen for the social interaction etc. He got the hang of wee in a matter of weeks so we put him in pants. We then had 2 years of daily dirty pants, no control or he didn't care. We were stressed, he was stressed, he'd pretend he was clean when the smell suggested otherwise. Even now, at 11, he's got a problem with poo. The playgroup and schools all said 'well done, keep him in pants.'

If I could do it all again I'd have left him in pull ups for at least 2 more years. Less stress all round, easier to clean up than pants, and started when he was ready, at 5 or 6. Then, maybe, we wouldn't have the issues we still have today. In my (crappy) experience I wouldn't rush it!

School will have to have a plan for changing him, may be problematic. But surely better than runny poo accidents?

what everyone says is right but at the same time you know really if hes ready or not some DCs get this late but early to other DCs with ASD ect in comparison and id like to asure you as my son whos moderate ASD with other difficulties inc dyspraxia that if you dont crack it in time for school please dont worry there will be others who have not he wont be the only one although yes it will feel like it my DS never totally got the hang of it (a lot of your dcs will) but mine was very late and had to go in pull ups and we carried on the toilet training befor and after school he then got better enough that he help his poo (still marking) as he didnt like to use the loos while out for no2s happy to do wee though and would come home and do his no2s he only got out of marking completely at age 8 and still isnt dry at night but goes to the same loo at the same time of night his own routine before bed then puts PJs on has a wash teeth and a story then goes to sleep its working so im happy but we really had a lot of worries and tantrums to get him to this it was the most incredibly hard work and very upsetting at times , i was worried if he smelled at school he would be taken the micky out of ect ect but it will work out in the end, we had child paed nurse come to visit for a year and a half but tbh there advice is try stickers try bribes oops sorry lol incentives all the kinds of things you would try the main help they had was really to let me know how common it is , more often than not they are just very behind their peers added to that some DCs my son being one of them just has lack of sensory telling him he needs to go and because of that lack also not minding the feeling of being soiled , i do hope your sons a lot faster than mine but from MN i know there all very different , how about having a huge go at it in summer hols so its more relaxed , i also feel my DS got a lot beter once we decided to just wait for him to show sighns he was ready and not stress over it

held his poo sorry not help lol

forgot to say dont wash them it becomes so much more horrible and nasty and anoying if you do buy cheap undies and treat them as disposable HTH

well my ds2 is not HFA but does have sensory stuff going on and he still poos in his pants aged nearly 7y. And sometimes still wees although I think that's only when he's upset or angry - the rest of the time he is pretty much in control of wees. Personally in your position I would go back to nappies and wait a while until you try again.

My DD is 4.5 starts mainstream school in Sept not formally Dx as yet but likely to have HF ASD. She has sensory issues has never requested to go to toilet we have to take her every hour and a half she frequently pees and poos in her pants and does not tell us it does not seem to bother her in the slightest. We have stuck with the pants and the accidents are a lot less frequent and I think she does pee and then stop herself. We have just purchased a watch online specifically for toilet training you can set it to vibrate when you like (we have it set to vibrate every hour and a half) or you can set it at specific times (you can set 12 in total) this is discreet it doesn't make a chime or anything just buzzes on their arm and DD will announce it's buzzing time for the toilet. I got in on a site called ERIC it was a bit pricey but we are desperate and will try anything. HTH

I agree with everyone else. He isn;t ready yet. Put him back in pull ups, and leave it for a bit.

DS2 (ASD) was dry the week before his 4th birthday, but it took a very long and lengthy pricess to get him there.

Start off by putting him on the toilet every time you change his nappy. If he is still happy having wees on the toilet with a pull up, then great! Ds2 gradually understood what the toilet was for and eventually used it. We had help from his SN nursery though WRT toilet training, and they started him off, advising me not to try for a month or so while they did it.

Watching for clues is another great way, which you're already trying to do, so well done.

Good luck with it all.

That watch sounds great, giggle.

He is just not ready, it is that considering his SN, the Early Years Team are pressuring you to toilet train. I know some NT children about my dd age 4, who are not yet toilet trained and still in pull ups, and the pre school puts no pressure on the parents (these are my friends kids) and have a very relaxed attitude so much so that they are saying that they can start school in pull ups . This pre school is attatched to the main primary school too. My dd (social comm difficulties, speech and lang developmental delay) was dry at 3.5 and clean a bit later. But she was ready and I was more relaxed.

OK, thanks for the MN consensus, such good advice. Back to pull ups it is, and we will continue to take DS to the loo for wee's and try and watch for poo clues, but we don't think he's ready. We do feel under pressure by the SN services to toilet train him, even thoguh we have been doing this for weeks and weeks and there is no change in his toileting pattern. I'll have to be firm with them, unless they offer to come and do the washing.

I think I'm a bit late with this but would support the general consensus. DS1 is 4.6, also ASD, also significant speech delay. We tried toilet training at Xmas and managed to get the the stage where he would ask for a nappy to wee into but were not able to transfer this effectively to nursery so we took a step back.

Tried again over Easter and have had great results. In pants all day, with a "poo nappy" and "night time nappy" after bath time. I'm comfortable that he'll crack pooing on the toilet in his own time since he will not at the moment.

For us pull-ups were useless since DS1 saw them, correctly, as nappies and so treated them as such. It's good you're talking to school; I hope they are good. Although DS1 has a statement now, even before hand we talked to the school (he's at the school nursery) and agreed what would happen for nappies, how many changes etc and they have been really good.

Good luck in whatever you decide but I really do think that things happen best in their own time.

There is nothing wrong with putting it off until you feel there is a better and more realistic chance of success. Having said that, DS (severe ASD/LD, non-verbal) was fully toilet trained by the time he was 3.5 although it took a full year from tentative start to confidence and there have been regressions and lapses occasionally over the years since then.
When you do go for it I agree with going on a timer, regardless of whether he has just had an accident, and I strongly advise using some sort of picture schedule with a reward at the end - Very simple at first and can get more complicated later, adding in each step of hand washing for example. We used LOTS of potties everywhere but you could go straight to toilet with step, depending on what works in your home. you can get "novelty" potties and seats etc for the toilet and there is that age old trick of putting a ping pong ball in the toilet (to get boys to wee standing up).
Personally I think it is unrealistic to expect a child with ASD/LD to learn to use the toilet/potty without any sort of visual or other support and reward.

Is there a certain time of day he poos?

DS2 poos at the exact same time every day, might be worth monitoring a time?

Ignore SN services, you do what's best for your ds, the more stressed he is the less likely he is to crack it.