Finding it hard to respect professionals'- Don't shoot me!!!

[Gigglebizmizz]

So I know this is a hot topic at the moment and I'll be really honest having thought twice about posting on here as I am what you would call a newbie. I have posted the odd time and have been terribly grateful to all the wonderful advice I have been given so when faced with my current problem my first thought was "oh great the mumsnetters will know what to do" but then I thought "Oh God I don't want to be seen as really negative towards the professionals after all who the hell do I think I am have only been around for 5 minutes but am a bit confused about what is happenning with my DD at the moment so will take my chances and hope that no-one takes offence or wants to put my windows in...........

The ed pysch in our case told me that she suspects my DD has very mild asd. She got the nursery teacher to fill out a GARS assessment which on her report said indicated that DD had "very likely probability of autism" so I asked on 3 occassions to see the report and for a copy for myself to complete to see where the issues at home and in a nursery setting differed and how I could address these. She sent a blank one for me but refused to send other one. She told me that under data protection act I could not see it without the nurserys permission (the nursery then phoned her and told her they had no probs with us having the report). My husband told her this was inaccurate and we were allowed to see ALL reports about our daughter. She said she would check with her boss and called back and said if we wanted it we would have to make a freedom of information request?????????? Hubby just told her to post it to the nursery and we would get a copy from them I cannot believe this, is she not supposed to be here to help and why would she want relations to become frosty this early on in the process? Is it because we have request a stage 4 assessment? Would she see this as us going over her head? And are ed pyschs not independant of the LA? Did I do the wrong thing asking for report in the first place?

Was hoping for transparency and openness why all the cloak and dagger?
Sorry certainly not tarring all professionals with the same brush we have some lovely people helping.

Any thoughts????

ed psych are not independent of the LA (assuming this was not a private ed psych?)

you have done nothign wrong in asking to see this. it is about your daughter, and you are entitled to ask.

the ed psych is handtied, in a way. it was the nursery who filled it in (did she run that by you?), so I guess she might have to get the nursery to ok sharing the info.

I would: type out a letter (and get the nursery to sign it, if they are happy to - it seems they woudl be) saying they are happy for all information they provide on your dd to be shared with you and your dh.

then send it in to the LA< copied ot everyone involved in your case (EP, SALT< OT - anyone). also, write one for yourselves while you are at it, saying you do nto give permission for your dd to be tested unless: your permission is explicity sought first, you are able to be copied in on the results/present for the assessment/be involved in the follow up meeting (delete as appropriate, or keep them all in)

we had a lot of time wasting form professionals in this way, even thugh I always gave blanket permssion for dd's files ot be shared between all involved in her care. it happens, and is very annoying.

Carry on respecting the professionals for the time being, cos the only one out of line seems to have been the ed psych. And she probably does know her day job; just nothing about the law. She may fear you are a stroppy parent who could cause her problems . So she is nervous and spouting rubbish in case she makes a mistake that could get her in trouble.

Your husband's solution sounds the most elegant.

Thanks chums I will try to keep a positive approach and not let this one incident make me all paranoid and anxious after all need to keep focused on my little DD and what is best for her.

You can point out that under the Data Protection Act you are allowed to see a copy of all information held on your child's file. There is no need to make a FOI Act request for it.

There is no duty of confidentiality to the nursery and if they have no good reason to refuse to comply with a request made under the DPA. This does not have to be made formally. A request for information which is in substance a DPA request (such as this) should be treated as such - see ICO's site for more details.

The trouble is that many professionals have absolutely no idea of their legal duties under the DPA/FIO Act as requests are frequently dealt with by some central body at the NHS or LA. However, you do not need to put your request to any particular person or in an particular way for the obligation to release records to arise.

They are entitled to ask for some identification (passport etc) before they release them.

My understanding is that any report on your DC regardless of who completes it should be made available to yourselves. In the same respect in a meeting of proffs if your DC is discussed you are within your rights to recieve a copy of the minutes (if you request them).

EPs (unless you paid for an independent EP to come in) work under the LEAs umbrella and are employed by them.

Re suspected mild ASD, I would have to say that Ed Pysch cannot officially make any such diagnosis; that process has to be instead done by a developmental paediatrician. Is your DD already under the care of such a person.

EPs main remit is to advise on additional educational needs; their report can be valuable when it comes to obtaining a Statement from the LEA.

As Attila says, an Ed Psych cannot diagnose ASD. An assessment would also have to involve much more than the GARS, which is just as well, as incidentally when my child was diagnosed, the GARS was completed by two different people involved in his care, and there was a big discrepancy between their answers.

There is good advice here on how to get permission in writing from nursery etc, but if you are worried in the meantime, I would also just arrange to talk to the nursery and ask the nursery what concerns they have, since you want to know. This is something you want to know for your daughter, and regardless of any assessments ongoing and any answers on the forms, you of course have the right to be alerted to any concerns they have about your daughter in the nursery setting.

It would be sensible for your GP to be sent copies of both GARS reports if you are asking for referral to a paediatrician or to CAMHS re the possiblity of autism. They could forward those with any referral. And of course show them to you

Just thinking through, maybe the ed psych wants to formally score the questionnaires and also gather some more info before doing a full report. Perhaps she is concerned to avoid giving little bits of information without context or a plan for how to deal with issues raised. So maybe relations aren't actually becoming frosty, just strained due to inadequate communication?

Thanks for replying Maria, unfortunately ed pysch has completed her report and in it states the conclusion of the nursery is that our DD has very likely autism having now seen GARS report there is a section at the end which she should complete with consultion with parents so hugely dissapointed that she has completed all of this without talking to us. She has now sent us a blank one to complete after I requested it but obviously this will not alter the report she has already written but I will find it interesting comparing my parent report with the nursery report. I feel that this is what she should have done to get an overall picture of our DD in all environments but hey ho am sure she must have her own reasons for doing things her way and I am certainly no expert.

You are the expert when it comes to your child Giggle, you should have been consulted and your views sought initially. If your views differ from the nursery then these should be included in an updated ed psych report. Hope it all works out for you and your child, and lets hope that the green paper does actually impact on the way in which professionals work WITH families so that in the future parents aren't repeatedly in this situation.

Hi giggle. An educational psychologist isn't able to make a diagnosis of autism, just flag up the possibility. And of course they mostly look at how the child seems at school or nursery. You can go to your GP and ask to be referred for a medical opinion, which takes account of how she is in all contexts. A neurodevelopmental paediatrician or the child and adolescent mental health doctor or clinical psychologist would then do a full assessment.

Looking at your post, your dd might have an autistic spectrum disorder, and if she does she would benefit from you getting your head round it sooner rather than later. Or, she could be behaving in an unusual way at nursery but be fine at home. And proving she doesn't have an ASD would mean nursery need to work out why she doesn't display her usual skills and abilities there.

Just seconding what maria says, an educational psychologist is not able to give a diagnosis of autism. She should be referring you to someone who is qualified to assess and diagnose at this stage. And a full and proper assessment will of course take into account detailed information about your child at home. If she is not referring you, then seek a referral for a proper assessment yourself to clear up the situation.

Thanks ladies if you see my new updated post entitled " Who can diagnose ADHD?" you will see my updated stort ie the ed pysch got it completely wrong was utterly negligent and we now have opinions from a clinical ed pysch, a senior paediatric consultant the autism intervention service and a private centre for the early treatment of autism which all state no ASD or autism but instead ADHD- PI. How can one person be so wrong we are now in complaint process and getting her crap report resinded. My rage is subsiding!!

Glad you are getting sorted and have had proper assessment for your daughter. Good that you are following up what the ed psych did, as it may save other families from going through similar, as presumably someone will address with her the many ways she went against proper procedure in your case. Best of luck.

Cheers beach holiday (Mmmmm I could do with one of those right now!!!!) I had my DD at a SALT session yesterday and was chatting to another mum whose Ds went for the ADOS and was confirmed with DX that day that her son had ASD. she told me that 2 SALTS took the ADOS which is just plain wrong as it should be a multi disciplined procedure. After DX she had an assessment from an ed pysch who told her your DS does NOT have ASD who told you he did???????? SHOCKING!!!! something is seriously very wrong in this neck of the woods. The private ed pysch we saw told us there are "hotspots of autism" in my area and he said this is because of over and mis-diagnosis. It's shameful so relieved I cancelled the ADOS now as the same idiots would be conducting it!!!

I can't believe SALTS are trying to diagnose ASD alone. As if ASD are solely a language disorder? It may not be their fault that they have been assigned to carry out the ADOS (it is certainly bad practice from whoever heads that service) but if a SALT is being asked to diagnose an ASD they should be professional enough, and ethical enough, to point out that they are not trained or qualified to make such a diagnosis, on the basis of being a SALT. They are messing with children's development here. That is highly concerning.

An Ed Psych cannot usually make a dx- I know of (am both a parent of 2 9and one awaiting dx) children with asd and a post grad student of the subject). I do know of one or two who can diagnose due to special circumstances (one is so noted she contributes to NICE wrt ASD) and the paeds sign her dxs off as a routine.

This is rare though.

We had one dx'd with ADOS and another with 3Di; they are both valid tools but only whren administered properly, and yes that would be with a multidisciplinary team preferably though reports can be used in some circs with 3Di.
I would actively select 3Di for ds4 when he is assessed shortly.

There are a few specialist SLT's; I know one who runs a lot of clinics locally, but she does not dx. She writes reports for NAS etc and is well know, shares the tertiary clinic with the psych.

Es Psychs are in the pocket of the LEA and whilst I have met some good ones I have met more I would never trust. Indeed we were told ds3 could do all manner of things that he still cannot 4 years on (autism) by an EP whom it turned out was minimising her paperwork due to imminent retirement.