How do you deal wih your child's behaviour while out?

[yukoncher]

My 4yo son has been known to scream, freak out, do other various things in response to strangers saying hello to him.
Yesterday we were in a posh little shoe shop and the lady who worked there said hello to my son and how are you etc and I held my breath as usual. DS reacted my growling 'no' and then staring at her right in the eye and spitting on the carpet. I've never even seen him spit before. So I said 'no, that's naughty' and then told her I'm so sorry, um, do you have some tissue, then had to pass the tissue back to her with god all in it. A bit embarrasing!

How does anyone deal with this stuff while out?

'gob' not 'god'
I think the woman might have expected me to tell him off more, but I wanted to be able to get him back to the car, without him having a 'on the floor- refusing to move' episode.
I don't know how I could have handled it differently

i try to ignore it and kinda drag DD round the supermarket while gritting teeth.
last week i had hold of DD wrist whilst out shopping. she was shouting 'oww you are hurting, you always hurt, get off me, you hurt like this before'
it was only hurting cos she was pulling to run off

I think it really depends on why he's acting out, does he have a recognised disability or is he being simply "badly behaved"?

The only reason i ask is that i have 2 boys one is ASD and one isn't ... different tactic's are needed for each. (granted mine are 9 and 11 now but there where four once and my youngest especially (who has no recognised disabilty) did go though a horrible phase around that age of telling everyone too F**K off... even though neither me or my husband sware))

I found the best tactic was to make him appologise... somehow forcing an appology made him realise that it wasn't acceptable. Also i've always been fairly strict so punishments often continued untill we where home.

Dealing with an ASD child is different and obviously depends on where on the spectrum he is the proper reaction.

He was really good for all the outing, it's just if people give him attention he doesn't know how to handle it, he'll pick something up and throw it often then do the hand flapping and wide eyes. He's never in his entire history said hello to anyone at all. His speach is also probably at aged 2.
Just don't know what to say to people when this stuff happens

I'm not sure if your ds is ASD or not. I am. I know that going shopping or to anything social is a huge panic for me. Not sure if this explanation will help or not, but for me it feels like this....(for example a shopping trip)

I'm in a shop. The overhead lights are flickering like mad but other people can't see the same flicker. I can hear every sound in that shop, every voice and movement and announcement, and everything outside it too - it's one wall of noise.
I can smell everything - the perfumes, the aftershaves, the carpets, the goods.
I can feel the way my clothes are in contact with me, and my shoes. I can sense the movement of the air around me.
All of it happens all at once, all the time - just endless relentless sensory input.

Someone approaches...and there's a voice really loud next to me. They're looking into my eyes and instead of my brain using the people-bit that others have to think "hey, a friendly face - great stuff!", it directs the eye contact straight to the "hell! It's a wild animal right next to me and it's going to eat me!" part of the brain. Non-usefully, that part of the brain presses the 'panic right now!" button and switches off any and all useful communication apart from absolute basics. I want to run away and hide. Instead, I have to look the scary monster in the eye and be nice to it, which feels totally mad to me.

That's why I panicked every single time someone spoke to me for years. And would be unspeakably exhausted when I got home, vowing that no parent would ever hurt me like that again. Strangely, they didn't experience it the same way, and thought I was just being rude.

Explaining it depends on the reason for the behaviour. Sometimes there's a good reason for it.

I have a dream of making some business cards that say:

'I am struggling with a disabled child. Social services have refused support. This is the name of the social worker who made that decision. Feel free to give her a call!'

That is funny Starlight! My boy had the mother of all tantrums in town the other day. As the years have worn on, I am far less bothered by the fact that everyone just stares, but what did surprise me this time was that a lovely woman came up behind me (here we go, I thought) and asked in the sweetest voice "what can I do to help?". I was totally blown away. She then proceeded v kindly to minimise what was a spectacular tantrum by saying "he's probably just feeling the heat, we all feel a bit like screaming today". Restored my faith in human nature a bit!

I think in the OP's case I would have told him off a lot, if only because otherwise people tut even more. And actually spitting is one of those things I absolutely come down on like a ton of bricks, as my ABA tutors told me it can get v bad if not nipped in the bud.

Sometimes though, depending on my mood, I take out my feelings on the gawpers and swear quite articulately at them, or give them what my daughter calls the "death stare". (NB - only if gawpers don't look like psychos).

wow, thanks amber

amberlight, the way you described that was facinating. I read lots of your posts in the past and they have always been very helpful, but what you just posted was a new way of looking at it for me. The way you described it was almost as if you had "superhuman" powers. Of course I know this is not how you see them and I can only imagine what a struggle it must sometimes be in those kind of situations.

Can I ask, now that you've mostly learnt to control your natural reactions do you ever learn to naturally fear less? Are you able to think more "logically" and by logically I mean the way someone without autism would think, or is it just a case of learning to control it. I hope that doesn't sound too tactless. I was just really interested to learn exactly how you are feeling in difficult circumstances.

Hi MMAQ, nope, no superhuman powers, though I can see three times more detail than other people can, somehow (a good number of us have vision that seems to work the same way as birds of prey rather than people, so we can pick out the tiniest details in a scene/see the whole scene at once to look for what's wrong or different...but not necessarily know what to do with the info). I can look at a work of art and tell fairly instantly if it's a fake, for example, without having to go through all that paint-testing malarky.

Anyway, your question is a good one. I'm going to generalise because everyone is a little different and not everything applies to each person...

Over the decades I've learned how to minimise exposure to sensory stuff, and how to take regular breaks from it, and how to explain my needs to others. If it's too much, I can now say so and explain why. But the sensory stuff doesn't go, and I don't mind it because (if I can control it) it gives me a lot of joy as well. Kind of like most of humanity hearing a well tuned piano but (in good moments) we can hear the whole symphony, I guess.

But the fear response is totally automatic as it's linked in via the amygdala part of the brain - the ancient bit that controls automated "hell, run, scary animal" stuff. It's like you trying to control your reaction if all of a sudden right now someone fired a gun in the room - your instincts are there to protect you. Ours help protect us from sensory overload, if we're allowed to have a choice about it. So, no, if I'm going to be scared, I'm just scared.

What helps is the prediction, which is why a lot of us thrive on routine etc. If we can guess which sensory nightmare is about to happen next, we can 'duck'

None of it stops me having a lovely dh and ds, or a job I love, or enjoying my life, if I can be allowed to cope in the ways that fit with my brain design.

I know how he feels - the eye contact things is like looking down the barrels of that gun, in a way..and if there's lots of people trying to do eye contact, it can feel like dodging shots in a gunslinger's fight! Someone to hide behind is ideal. These days I'm tempted to wear my wig backwards in an emergency but mostly I get by with unfocusing my eyes so I'm not really looking at theirs, or focusing on their mouth instead.

oh wow its fantatic yoou explaining how you feel like that thank you Amberlight its kind of what i expect it to be like but hearing it from someone whos actually feeling it makes it seem much more real than when just reading it in a text book or being told it by so called profeshionals in my sons case the supermarket/mall are paticularly bad places to take him so i avoid them as much as possible and im hoping the SS as they start taking them on school trips there next year in year 7 will give him ways to handle such situations as he cant not ever go shopping thats just not feasable is it, but i try to make it as plesant as possible with something to look forward to like a sweet /drink at the end and get him to put things in the trolly for me if he want too if hes feeling particulary like he just doesnt want to be there i let him play his DS whilst walking round, having said that we took him to hmv after school yesterday to buy a new DS game and he had twomeltdowns within 30 mins of being at the mall and lay on the floor shouting and moaning (he couldnt find a game he liked) his dad was so very embarased i used to be but ive learned now that hey i dont give a rats arse sorry about the language, what people think anymore but just stepped over him and walked down the next asile and said bye , just like i would have done with my two NT DCs when they were 5 and did that , he soon got up and followed me , i pretended like it never happened and carried on chatting i was pleased with myself as a year ago before his DX i would have wanted to sink into the floor with embarasment

I know with my DD(4) she can see the tiniest of details in a picture and if something has moved she knows straight away. She very often with prove me wrong with things like that. I will say she's wrong about something and I would bet money on it at the time that i'm right and she will insist that she's right. It's become rather comical in our family now because we both (me and dp) look at each other and say "she's right, we know she is". It just takes us longer to see what she has seen. Little things like that I definitely see as a gift, even if some people may see them as weird. Anything is viewed as weird if it's not the norm. It would be great if we could see them as special gifts rather than odd.

I know you've mentioned before that your DH and DS both have autism. Do you mind if I ask, are your autistic traits all quite similar? Or do you sometimes find it difficult to relate to certain things?

That last question was directed towards amberlight.

Smile, yup. A thought - hitting the supermarket in a quiet bit first thing is probably a better bet for many of us than later in the day or when very busy. Exhaustion builds up, and often we can cope with more mid morning than we can by late afternoon.

MMAQ, yes, we are an entire family on the spectrum, all in different ways yet with great similarities really. Each of us has our specialised interests and our need for own sort of of 'downtime', and we've had to learn to be really really clear about our needs with each other - in words (since body language isn't an option!).
I can find it very hard to relate to some things, yes - but what sort of thing did you mean?

Thanks amberlight , I always wanted to get into the mind of my dd aged 4 (possible ASD, social communication difficulties, and speech and lang delay) understand her and how she thinks. That people with ASD have a different perception of the environment, and and people around them, and how this affects their behaviour. There is a good book that I am reading called "Ten Things a Child with Autism wishes You Knew" that is also very good. to.

The trouble with dd is that she gets bored very quickly and she is not overtly keen on shopping so we have had to cut trips short, or she has total meltdowns. Sweets and distractions also help, I have had to intertwine what shops we want to go to when out and visit places that dd wants to go to, especially the fountain in the middle of the shopping centre (she loves water and could be there all day).

Yes Amber dd is a lot better in the morning when she is fresh and less tired than later in the day.

PM, yes, that's one of my favourite books too

It opened up my eyes, and some of it was like reading about dd. It should be given to educators, they could do well with reading it. I always wondered when dd does not like giving eye contact, and why she puts her hands on her ears, and finds pre school more stressful than home. Basically information overload, and as she is quiet and does not speak loudly dd tends to get overlooked.

amberlight, sorry I don't think I made that very clear. I meant did the 3 of you find it difficult to relate to each other sometimes.

The more I read up and here from people on forums like MN, I notice more and more subtle traits from my dp's side of the family. His mum finds it difficult to give eye contact and will often concentrate on the side of your face. She tends not to understand personal space and the boundries, which I think you mentioned before that it's something you have a system for. Arms length away was it? Also dp's dad will quite often say inapproriate things and where as when I first met him I simply thought he was a rude and rather selfish man, now I'm wondering if he too could be on the spectrum. Dp also when I first met him could say rather unusual things, but again I just put it down to having an unusual sense of humour. He does have dyslexia and ADD. Having said that he tends to have that more under control, with regards to saying inappropriate things.

Thank you for making all this a little easier for me to understand. :)

MMAQ, there's often links in families - autism can be a genetic thing. Interesting that the recent big science study of some 2000 people found loads of people on the autism spectrum, and not one of them had realised they were. Same rate of diagnosis as for children. No diagnosis in schools etc for non-low-IQ autism until 1994, so most adults missed out completely. The online AQ test (easy to google) is a starting point for a lot of us. A high score (over 32) means some people think it's worth going for a diagnosis. A score over 42 is normally an indicator of severe autism (mine's 43). Others decide not to have a diagnosis. A personal choice. Diagnosis is only given after interviews with the person and their family and if autism is making life really hard and causing real problems. Just having the symptoms but coping absolutely fine isn't enough to get a diagnosis, if you see what I mean?

Relating to each other? Aha, yes, can be tricky with just words to go on and none of us having a very good ability to guess what the other might mean if they don't use every word the right way. They say 85-95% of communication is non-verbal - tone of voice, eye contact, face expression, gesture, how close you stand to someone, etc. We're 'blind' to just about all of it. But I think we relate very well to each other. DS and DH have the hardest time relating, because they're both very determined people who want things to be 'their way' sometimes. I'm more laid-back and the peacemaker