please read - girl reading obsesively

[whatkatydidathome]

Am not sure where to post this - I just want to know if anyone else has a girl like this.

dd is 10, very bright at English (has won competitions) okay at maths. She has always read obsessively - often re reads the same books, usually ones that are below her age (eg Enid Blyton, Jeromy Strong). By obsessively I mean several a day, carrys a book everywhere - often carries two in case she finishes one (eg carried 2 hard backed books in her hands up a small mountain the other day on a walk). She has no friends - wants them but cannot interact - talks constantly on her current "pet subject" (which varies). Not a conversation - more a monalogue. dh and I have to take turns to listen as it can be very boring. She is also pathologically untidy - she appears genuinely unable to put things away or to not look scruffy.
She is a lovely little girl :) no malice, very witty (in a very grown-up way) when not talking in a monologue, and has amasing general knowledge - rememebrs everythign she ahs read (sort of walking encyclopedia) but is being picked on pretty constantly now at school for being "odd" (has a very (self) restricted diet, does not get "trends" at all etc).

She has been assessed for ASD but appearently does not show enough repetative behaviour - ie gets obsessed by things but the things change over time, does not make much eye contact but makes some.

I am worried about how she will go through adolescence with no freinds and that seh will get depressed with the picking on at school (said yesterday that she was "a bit fed up with bein gmade to feel like a freak" - it is all the children at the school - all year groups seem to have some who have a go at her, the rest simply ignore her.

Any suggestions please?

Not sure when you had her assessed for ASD but girls are notoriously difficult to DX as they are naturally more communicative and social. My DS has always had rolling obsessions, never for more than a few months. This book obsession sounds like a long term one, though. TBH I think you should get her reassessed, it may be that over time her peers are getting away from her socially and developmentally and she may be easier to assess. Probably not what you wanted to hear, sorry.

Oh lord, sounds very much like me as a kid (except I don't think I monologued, but did have little awareness that others wouldn't have sme knowlege/interest as me). Except in my day there was so much less awareness of Aspergers, and as I behaved v well and was an academic achiever, my social problems were swept under the carpet.

I had very few friend at school, but fortunately had a few good friends out of school, which made a massive diffference. I won't lie - my high school experience was grim - found it a culture shock not to be able to spend breaktimes playing tag etc, instead people just cliqued off into chatty groups, but Uni was marvellous (lots of nice bright people and geeks). Things I would advise from my own experience - 1)don't send her to an all girls high school 2)send her somewhere with plenty of interesting lunch time clubs - it will give her some social structure to break times 3)have her do out of school activities with a different peer group, to give her a chance to have friends out of the school setting. again interest focussed groups might be best, as a shared interest will provide some conversation material.

I agree with Ellen's points about girls missing out on diagnoses, may be worth revisiting in run up to high school. btw school should be supporting her based on need rather than dx anyway, do they run any social skills groups?

Invite ONE girl, a bookish girl, round for tea. Make yur house awesome to her.

This is what my mother had to do for me. i talked constantly, carried books everywhere, read even 6whilst^ walking to school, adored Enid Blyton (which is not too young for ten year olds, by the way, it just has no adult themes) and got picked on for 'being a stig' (I was not at all interested in my appearance.)

I am relatively normal now.

oohhhh actually, St John's Ambulance was very good for me. I Took Issue (and so did my parents) with the religious aspect of Brownies, but I Loved St John's Ambulance.

Look for focussed activities for her, then everyone is doing the same thing as she cannot, for eg, read whilst she is trampolining

How can I get her reassessed? She was seen by two peads - first was rude to me (said it was all my problem) - dd spent entire session relating one incident where dh has an argument with a man about a bull terrier who was jumping up at ds. Pead took this to mean that we spent all our lives having arguments with strangers as this was all dd would talk about. Second opinion pead said that "whilst she did spend the session walking around in circles and talking constantly I could not see enough repetative behaviour to feel that a dx would be useful in this case"

St Johns sounds good - is there an age limit?

Bloody hell, doesn't sound like they did a very good job except to put you off trying. Personally, I would want a DX but others are happy without. Depends on how it can help you. It may make getting support in social skills easier to obtain in school. Secondary must be a worry. My DS starts in Sept and they have a lunch time club for those with SEN, but your DD may feel that's not for her. But if staff are aware they will be able to guide her towards appropriate lunch time clubs, the hardest part of the day IMO, unstructured and loosely supervised. Is she in y5 or Y6?

she is in Y5. She goes to any lunchtime clubs going but falls out with/gets picked on by the kids there.

Get her reassessed. Despite what people think it is very hard to get a DX - even if you actually do have ASD, and particularly if you're a girl.

Although of course a dx won't actually solve any of your / her problems - but will give you more ideas as to what might help....

My dd1 is similar (she would get on well with your dd), she's 7 and often reads 2 or 3 books at a time, at the moment she's hooked on 'diary of a wimpy kid' as well as reading 'charlie and the chocolate factory', dd1 has no friends as they get fed up with her going on and on about what book she's reading or what web site she has been on (moshi monsters), she does get lonley and knows she's different, she has a DX of Aspergers syndrome but i would say she has mild aspergers. I have several adult friends (well people i know) who are the same with books (will read a whole book in one go and get really excited about getting a new book).

You could be talking about me 40 years ago. And now to a certain extent. My mother still loves to tell evryone how I broke my glasses by walking into a lamp post because I would read while walking home from school.

Reading is still my main hobby - I couldn't live without being able to read.

I have managed to get married, have kids, freinds, career and a life! But definately am a geek.

Agree with zzzzz's approach.

I would have a long hard think about how a dx would help her.

If you feel she needs a label to explain to herself why she feels different that's reasonable. My DD1 really benefited from that aged 12.

If you think she's at risk from co-morbid mental health issues that would be a good reason too.

If you feel that she won't cope with secondary school that's a very good reason to push for reassessment. That was what prompted my DD's dx but it took a year of her being unable to attend to sort it and get a statement.

There may be other good reasons why she would benefit from a dx. If there aren't I wouldn't bother fighting.

If you feel strongly that it is needed then read up lots on Tony Attwood and Girls with Asperger's Syndrome and then look for the evidence. Doing that made a big difference for us.

Good luck.

Sounds like me. Have ASD. Social skills can be learned - agree with pointing her in the right direction via books. I read all the time re reading easy books - it helps shut out stressful thoughts/sounds/whatever.

My reason for thinking about a dx is her "I feel like a freak" statement. I do not view Aspergers in particular (and higher functioning ASD in general) as disorders - more conditions - and my hope is that having a dx of anything woudl make her feel like one of a group/minority/special rather than feeling like an alone freak.

Have read Attwood - and about Asp and girls - it does sound exactly like her (and me for that matter :) ) but not according to pead so we can't get anywhere with a dx and are stuck tryign to get teh school to act on the social issues :(

She sounds very much like me, except I talked incredibly quickly rather than talking in a monologue, didn't have the adult witty humour and I found it extremely difficult to initiate talking and other things. And though I liked other children, when we moved I was not the slightest bit bothered that I'd never see the children I'd been playing tag with. Like TotalChaos said, if there was a game with rules etc to be played, I was ok. When the dynamics of peer groups changed and instead you were supposed to sit around talking, I couldn't do it.
As for obsessions, I have had the same overall one since I was 8, but the subcontext varies. It's historical and fictional accounts of violent death and torture. So it could be real life Victorian poisoners, or Stephen King, or Agatha Christie, or 17th century Witch trials, for example. So when thinking about your dd's rolling obsessions, is there anything that would link them up?
Another thing to be aware of is whether your dd internalises her difficulties relating to how she perceives her environment. For example, both Ds1 and I as a child (and still) frequently find it stressful going into town. But whereas Ds1 will react by getting loudly upset over seemingly very trivial things, crying, screaming, shouting etc, I would and will withdraw, become very quiet and even less able to initiate talking etc. This was the same throughout school and it is very easy for teachers and so forth to conclude that the passivity means all is well.

You can see a paed privately if you are not happy with the NHS one. Or you can get your GP to refer you to a diff paed.

If she is passive, and many girls with ASD are, you might have to give the teacher an analogy. This is a good one to use.

"You've got two kids with the same bladder problem. One pushes, shoves and screams to get to the toilet when she needs to. Th other quietly sits and wets her pants. Who are you most worried about? It's not going to be the one who's causing the 'social problem' - it's the one who isn't."

Dear god Colditz that is EXACTLY what I used to do and I mean exactly. It wasn't enough times to be a serious concern, but when you are 15 and you are in church and have an accident and then try and walk up the aisle, not realising or thinking that other people will notice (as in you don't think about them at all, rather than thinking 'it will be ok') that's a tad concerning, isn't it? Ironically it wasn't until someone laughingly told me at work I didn't have to go to the toilet that a lot of that issue disappeared, as being able to just go to a toilet whenever I needed to, rather than asking to leave a room helped.
Which is another aspect of the passive AS person. I still have a lot of difficulties with my self help skills, my ability to look after my body and to cope with expected things for a woman. I keep most of this very hidden. Logically I can see it does not help and what to do. Realistically I go into denial/withdrawal when faced with certain matters. Because I do not talk about these things most people would be unaware of them, DH being really the only one who comes close.

Your DD needs to be reassessed; the two paeds who saw your DD originally ought to be ashamed of themselves. They have let her and in turn you down. GP should refer you to someone different from these two or you can pay privately.

You are your child's best - and only - advocate here. Schools rarely if ever pick up on such problems; teachers are simply not trained to recognise ASD or anywhere on its varied spectrum.

You can go to the GP and ask for a referral to a secondary centre such as Lorna Wing, Elizabeth Newson etc NAS will have a list. They will look at cases where other professionals can't agree but your local PCT (or whatever they are now) have to fund the referral
There was a book called Aspergirls which came out recently although I don't know what its like. You need to go armed with a list of convincing symptoms to get the referral.
Or you could ask for a CAMHS referral - many paeds know little about ASD. WHo is the ASD expert locally? It might be a psychologist
You could press the view that lack of friends / bullying etc will lead to emotional problems in teens if not addressed.
The schools could treat the social issues as a SEN without a diagnosis of course eg run social skills groups, lunchclubs etc
You could consider an Aspie youth group etc if there is one locally or could set one up. You can always go along to parent support groups etc even if you don't have the magic diagnosis.
Lots of ASD groups run swim sessions, youth groups, trampoline clubs etc
You could think about some counselling or private support - a local private counselling service cater for older children on the spectrum, or other private autism consultants may run groups or offer support / coaching on social skills.
Depending on the school a diagnosis may not bring much as mainstream schools are often not good at teaching social skills to kids with ASD (not surprising as they have no training in how to do so).
Sometimes social services run groups and life skills courses etc
Look at secondary options - will a diagnosis offer up different choices?

it sounds like part of the problem is the school not dealing with those who are picking on her. It's not her fault she's different.

I was a lot like this at 10, but then i think being 10 was easier back then (a bit),there wasn't this same pressure to act 15. I don't see anything wrong with reading Enid Blyton at 10, some of her books are written specifically for that age group and older (jolly hockey sticks stuff like Malory Towers etc).

I really think you should go through the school and identify which kids specifically are inciting the bullying, it can't be all of them, surely?

Hiya. Like a lot of the posters, I was a girl who was constantly reading Looking back it was definitely beneficial, and the advice above is excellent i love the image of 'making a path of books' for her. I would also recommend the school library as a place of refuge for your daughter, especially at high school.

If the lorna wing centre isn't near for you, great ormond street have a similar second opinion clinic. Camhs usually need to rubber-stamp the gp's initial referral so that's a good way to see them quickly.