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Soiling in School - anyone have any experiences (good/bad) ?

17 replies

ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 28/04/2011 08:22

I have been adives to post over here :) In a nutshell, DS is soiling in school - he was changed for the first month or so, then later being sent home early and waiting in his own mess on a paper towel until I got there. THey refused to do anything until I could prove a medical condition (was in the process of getting help anyway as he is just 5), which I did and now they have agreed to change him once a day, at lunchtime and no more despite him soiling up to 6 times a day. he went back (I pulled him out) two days ago, and both days he has come home sore and soiled. Lots of meeting with head who has told me I am more than welcome to move schools or pull him out again. I have written the following letter now - (will post in a sec), but I am doing this blindly. Social services were disgusted he was being unchanged but it wasn't their department, so I know it isn't just me being fussy! How has anyone else dealt with this, esp. if the school if not helping? The school nurse is involved.

OP posts:
ASecretLemonadeDrinker · 28/04/2011 08:23

To Whom it May Concern;

I am writing to you with regards to the matter of my son XXXXX. When he started the school, I made those who would be responsible for his welfare during school hours aware of his needs; that is he needs to be checked for soiling on a regular basis throughout the day. At the time, I was satisfied that you were aware and happy to take responsibility for this, as no issues were raised with me at all.

However, as time has gone on it has become apparent that my child's welfare and medical needs have taken somewhat of a backseat. I have raised a number of concerns surrounding the fact that my son appears to be being left in his own filth for hours at a time, coming home with rashes and dried on excrement. It was discussed with his teachers several times that he needed reminding, at the time, to go to the toilet and to be checked and if need be, changed. As time progressed, XXX was not changed, instead he was left until home time, or until I had left home or work to come and change him, and in turn made to take him home from school for the rest of the day, and sometimes 48 hours despite it not being due to illness. XXXX was later diagnosed with Encopresis, possibly caused by constipation and overflow, making him faecally incontinent. Despite this diagnosis, I was approached by a member of staff on one occasion and told, in front of my son, to ?gee him up? and that this had to stop. On this occasion XXXX had excrement all down his legs, with fresh trousers on top to hide it, excrement on his socks, up the back of his school jumper, on the front and sleeves of his school jumper and in his shoes. This member of staff on a previous occasion sent him home unchanged, but with paper towels stuffed down the back of his trousers and pants causing the mess to ride up the back of his jacket. On many other occasions he has been sat in reception or the first aid room, alone, on a paper towel, again in his own excrement. I brought this matter to the attention of the head teacher, XXXXXXXXX, who expressed surprise that he had ever been changed at school. After I pulled him out of school due to this neglect, provisions started to be put in place for his care. Unfortunately his needs are still not being met. I have provided him with 'pull up pants? and wipes to make the situation as easy as I possibly can, so he is not dirtying his clothes and thus making the condition as quick and hygienic to deal with as is practicable; but the fact remains that for the past two days my child has been sent home soiled and upset. I have requested that XXX be checked hourly so he is not left soiled for any length of time as he is too ashamed and fearful to tell the teachers, but this request has been denied, that only one member of staff is willing to change him, under the supervision of the head teacher. No provision has been made for when Mrs XXX is elsewhere, and I have been told more frequent checks are unacceptable as they are unwilling to change him more than the once a day in his current education plan. As I have explained many times, this is not laziness on my child's behalf. This is an extremely upsetting medical condition that should be dealt with using the utmost sensitivity and discretion, and not in a manner which is compounding the psychological aspects.

This failure to meet his most basic of needs and rights not only infringes on the Every Child matters and the underpinning Children?s Act (2004), The Equality Act (2010) but also The Human Rights Act 1998.

Your staff however; would appear to have somewhat of a different take on the situation, and it has become apparent through a recent exchange between the head teacher and XX's teacher, Mrs XX?s in which immediately after a meeting between myself and Mrs XX on 27/04/2011, in which I had asked again for XXX to be checked hourly as now he was on Movicol he was soiling up to 6 times a day, Mrs XX walked up to Mrs XXXs and exclaimed ?do you want the bad news or the really bad news". The unfortunate exchange took place in front of myself and my son. Again; unacceptable. The irony is, that if I were to leave my son sitting in his own filth for hours on end because I was 'too busy', it would be viewed (rightly) as neglect.

The effect of your cavalier attitude towards his physical welfare has been exacerbated by the inappropriate conversations I have been forced to have with you about this in front of him, which has cause our family and my son in particular considerable distress. I would urge you therefore to deal with this situation immediately before further damage is done.

I am copying this letter to the relevant authorities and our GP, who has been consulted with regard to this matter, and in the event that this situation is not addressed immediately, I will be reluctantly forced to consult a solicitor with regard to the personal injury and Disability Discrimination aspects of this unfortunate situation.

I feel that a reasonable request would be for an assistant to be allocated to my child to assist him with the regular changes that are needed, since I realise that the teacher may be unable to take the time to check him hourly. Any other child with difficulties, be it learning or health difficulties would be given the appropriate help. I would like to know why it is that my son is being discriminated against?

I would like this letter to be considered not only a formal complaint against Mrs XXXX and the treatment of my son by the members of staff at XXXX School, XX, but also as a platform for a dramatic change in the way my son is being treated and his educational, physical and psychological needs are being met and to unsure this sort of treatment never occurs again to my son, or any other child.

I look forward to your earliest reply;
Yours sincerely

Mrs XXXXXXXx

OP posts:
Gigglebizmizz · 28/04/2011 09:48

That is so terrible absolutely horrific for your poor son. All I would say is that the school more than likely do not have the hours or staff to allocate your son his own assistant if this is a disability have you looked into the process of getting him a statement of special needs that way the school are legally bound to look after your child's physical needs? My dd was having the exact same soiling issues at nursery, refusing to go then feacal impacted and lots and lots of soiling as she was on movicol. The movicol was much to strong for her and I now give her lactulose twice a day so she goes daily but only the once. Hope you get it all resolved all this will give your poor DS a phobia about the toilet it has been handled so badly by the teachers in question.

2Siobhan · 28/04/2011 11:01

That truly awful. I am in a similar situation. Briefly (I could write an essay lol) My ds got really constipated when he started reception. He had only just started pooing in the potty a few weeks before starting school and wouldn't use the toilet. The school refused to change him and reluctantly agreed to take him to the toilet at lunch time. I had to keep him at home when he started movicol. I have lowered the dose and he is constipated again. It really its a nice situation and I really dont know how to resolve, sorry. Please let us know how you get on. Good Luck. x

TheNinjaGooseIsOnAMission · 28/04/2011 11:14

have you tried any of the helplines? There's ace and ipsea that you could try, they have plenty of info on their sites as well. This may be useful. Also the sen code of practice has a section on medical conditions. You could also try parent partnership for your area.

dd3 (5) still uses nappies, although she has many other issues and is statemented, it has never been an issue, possibly because of the statement I don't know. She has a care plan set up which requires them to check her regularly and change as required. Have you considered moving school, they seem particularly uncaring?

IndigoBell · 28/04/2011 11:22

They do have to change him. They cannot leave him dirty.

Also copy in the board of governors. Possibly address it to the chair of governors, and cc everyone else, because they are the people you are meant to take a complaint with the HT to......

It is not your problem if they don't have the staff to change him. It is up to school to sort that out. If they can't afford it, it is up to them to apply for extra funds........

auntevil · 28/04/2011 13:49

My DS2 is in a similar situation - but has had a very different response from the school.
He is yr 1 and has varying bouts of soiling. 1 day clean, next day 5-6, nothing until pm and then a couple of times in an hour - all of these.
Reception was fine. I do remember signing a form saying that i agreed to staff changing my DS. A rocky first day back to yr1, as apparently the form i had signed was just for reception. I reminded about the medical condition and there have been no problems since - as such.
There are several DCs on hourly toiletting routine. He was added to this. It is organised by the same TAs every day - so they get used to the same members of staff changing them if required.
It isn't a catch-all. He can still come out soiled. If it isn't spotted in the last hour - or he's just done it as they're sitting waiting for pick-up. I can then go in and change him.
There was an instance of name calling - but that was knocked on the head.
I have DS3 due to start this Sept - with the same problem. I'm quite happy that he will be changed as and when required.
I do have some sympathies with schools in these cases (although not if they are as unsupportive as yours). If you think how long it takes you to clean up after an explosive up the back episode, and you multiply that by the number of times a day, that is a fair amount of time that a member of staff is not available to be doing their specific job. I'm surprised that the school haven't pushed for statementing for this reason. Has the school nurse got involved in this?

2Siobhan · 28/04/2011 14:39

I am confused. My ds school and school nurse have told me that their policy is not to change poo as they dont have the facilities. He has sen but hasn't got a statement yet but they tell me the statement won't change a thing. I am getting really upset about this. On tuesday two children were caught pulling down ds underwear in the bushes at play time they. I think they were teasing him about his pull up pants grr.
Sorry for highjacking your post. x

IndigoBell · 28/04/2011 15:11

2Siobhan - there is no way they can say this. They have a 'duty of care' to your child while he is in their care. This would clearly include cleaning him up.

Talk to Parent Partnership.....

Read the SEN COP.....

Read the DDA......

And never ever believe what school says.

madwomanintheattic · 29/04/2011 05:10

school nurse and paediatrician should draw up a care/ continence plan, which should be agreed by the school and you. this should detail what facilities will be used, and who will change him/ general procedures (ie how many changes of clothing they will have on hand from you etc)

so sad.

ds1 still soils at 9. school sometimes don't even notice, but even when it is obvious he has soiled he denies it.

2siob - it's really a health need rather than an educational need (although that can be argued) so it shouldn't matter about the statement. as it is a health need it should be drawn up on a care plan held by the school and adhered to in the same manner as if they were resonsible for giving a child medicine. care/ continence plans are often a bit controversial with some toing and froing about who is responsible, but orgs above will help you get school to accept responsibility. it's the school nurse's job to make sure that all medical needs are catered for, so she needs to be getting a care plan organised. usually specific TAs are volunteered to be the named staff who will change the child if necessary. the people allowed to change the child are usually named in the care plan.

pottynursey · 29/04/2011 21:04

The commonest cause of soiling is constipation - do get your son checked out by GP -The soiling is caused by his bottom (rectum) becoming overstretched by all the poo which desensitises it so that he cannot feel the poo or the urge to go. The bunged up poo just leaks out without the child being aware it happens. This is very easily treated with a laxative called Movicol which you can get on prescription from your GP -it is a powder that you can add to any of his drinks. I agree with all the other comments re the need for care plan etc. The Dept of Education has produced a document called 'Including me' you can find it on the Council for Disabled Children's web site - chapter 9 covers continence and clearly identifies schools duty of care - it can be downloaded for free and every school is supposed to have a copy!

pottynursey · 29/04/2011 21:34

secretlemonadedrinker - I have just read your letter through and realised he is already on Movicol! What your little fellow has been through is not acceptable but I am concerned he is still soiling regularly. This may be because either he was not prescribed a sufficient dissimpaction regime and he is still bunged up or his bowel is now clear but the dose of the Movicol is too high. The dissimpaction usually takes about a week after that the soiling should stop when he should be on a maintenance dose combined with a bowel retraining programme. Is there a paediatric continence advisor in your area that can give you extra advice and support to get this problem sorted?

madwomanintheattic · 30/04/2011 01:30

pottynursery - the op's letter clearly states he has been dx with encopresis etc etc.

2Siobhan · 30/04/2011 15:18

Thanks for the info but how now to approach the school with this I don't know. Should I print some of the information and show them. In 'Including me' in says "Asking parents of a child to come and change a child is likely to be a
direct contravention of the DDA, and leaving a child in a soiled nappy for
any length of time pending the return of the parent is a form of abuse." x

pottynursey · 01/05/2011 19:29

2Siobhan - have you discussed this with your school nurse? She should be supporting you with this - its difficult I know because you dont want to do anything that can turn the staff against you and your child but at the end of the day they have a duty of care....it would be better if someone did all the negotiating on your behalf - have you been in touch with parent partnership?

Madwomaninthe attic - the term 'encopresis' is a generic term used in USA for any type of soiling - in UK it is usually confined only to soiling occuring in the absence of an underlying constipation and mainly is behavioural in origin. However often both definitions are mixed up and is therefore often a descriptive term rather than a diagnosis per se. That said all children with soiling should be put on a structured bowel programme rather than just laxatives and left to get on with it :-)

madwomanintheattic · 02/05/2011 07:08

pottynursery, yy re structured programme, thought that had been covered by the op's letter and by my 'etc etc'. didn't want to repeat advice she had already been given by the docs.

would disagree that the term encopresis in the uk is usually confined to that existing in the absence of underlying constipation though. (ds been under various paeds in both uk and north america and have never heard the term used in the absence of constipation and solely for behavioural reasons... even the gps always start by explaining that the main reason for encopresis is underlying and usually long-standing constipation)

2siob - there's lots of stuff on the eric website i think - leaflets etc that might be useful for school. iirc they have one which advises re continence issues and school - has been a while since i looked though.
www.eric.org.uk

awmidlands · 03/05/2011 16:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

madwomanintheattic · 03/05/2011 17:41

?
okaaaaay. not sure what that was about, but out of 12 messages posted by a first time poster or name changer this morning there's only one still standing. all as/asd related.

unusual to get a troll in sn.

hey ho.

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