ASD and obsession with Letters and words

[mumof2terrors]

Hi there

Just wanted to know if anyone had any thoughts....My DS is 30 months old not dx as yet but am pretty sure he has asd. Thing is he seems obsessed with letters and numbers he literally breaks his neck looking at the asda or tesco signs as we drive past. He loves books and could spend all day looking at his picture book.

We are starting his ABA program mid May and was wondering if anyone else had a DC with these issues and what came out of it? could he be teaching himself to read?

any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated

Hi Mumof2
Sorry I have no helpful advice, just questions:
Where are you doing ABA? How come you knew about that? Would it help my DS who is 4 or is it too late?

Yes ds taught himself to read before he was three mostly from the subtitles on the TV and from books I read him. I didn't realise until he spelt Oracle with his magnetic letters because he was still non verbal at the time. Does ds have words? You could try writing Asda and Tesco on paper and see if he recognises them.

I wrote the word OSO on a piece of paper and he said "OSO" one of the few words that he knows. like right now he is sitting next to me looking at the mumsnet sign.

@oodlesfoodles i found out about ABA through a lovely mum i spoke to on mumsnet i cant thank her enough she opened my eyes to ABA.

My ds (5) has this- he's currently being assessed for AS. He was reading fluently by 3, though he didn't have a langugae delay. He delights in nonsense words and playing with sounds, and is totally obsessed with numbers. He hasn't done times tables at school yet, but over breakfast this morning casually counted to 300 in 6s

Lots of people commented how bright he was as a preschooler, but I always felt the intensity of his interest was not 'normal' (hate that word). I mean, it's great that he loves reading and maths so much, but it seems like it stops him from engaging in his real-world environment sometimes. (you don't notice the trees much if you're busy counting them).

It's interesting to read that your ds is similarly into words, as somehow it didn't seem a typical ASD 'obsession' in my head. (I guess there's no such thing as a typical ASD child!) Where did you start with the ABA?

Fwiw, he's doing fine in reception so far- loving all the basic skills work and holding his own socially.

Ps smallwhitecat - ds does exactly that with straws too!

Look up hyperlexia. Another variation of ASD when DC can read precociously. Their reading ability is often out of sync with their comprehension, ie, they can read more than they can understand and infer. Seems really strange when they can (later) read really expressively but still can't answer comprehension questions.

My ds1 (ASD) taught himself how to read when he was very young. I don't think it was an obsession as such because he had no interest in books at the time. I think he probably picked it up from subtitles on the television.

He was flagged early on as probably having hyperlexia. The main issue was that he didn't understand what he was reading but he was helped with comprehension skills.

He's now 10yrs old, is still good at reading but now has the comprehension skills to match.

On the other side of the coin, ds2 (ASD) used to be obsessed with numbers as a young toddler and pre-schooler. He's now 8yrs old and maths is the subject he dislikes the most at school.

Our DS has this. He is 3.8 now and ASD and has known his numbers and letter sounds before the age of 2. He does have language delay but he can read quite well, he just knows what a word should sound like and reads 100's of words amd simple books, and has a really good go at more complicated words. We have done no phonics sounds with him, but he can blend sounds to try and work out a word. I have recently heard of hyperlexia and think some of it fits DS. DS reads signs in shops, the doctors, reads leaflets and labels in shops -much to the astonishment of shop assistants as he is usually strapped in a pushchair to contain him while i'm paying.
Mumof2terrors-how did you get started with ABA? Find a tutor/course leader etc? Just looking into this for DS.

Here's a link to hyperlexia on the NAS website.

Ds was dx hyperlexia at four, pretty obvious really when he could read the newspaper but had barely any words. He could also spell any word he could read which made life interesting when he'd write insults about his teachers in his books. Ever had to explain that you haven't taught your child at 5 to write Mr S is a bloody poof and a bald-headed knobhead spelt perfectly complete with hyphen.

Sorry asdx2, that must have been really hard to deal with, but ! brilliant!

Thanks for the link ellenjane

DS1 (3.5) has an obsession with letters and numbers. He makes numbers out of his cars, spaghetti, anything that you can bend into a number. He can count from 100 backwards and loves playing with the calculator. I have shown him sums but he isn't quite ready for that yet!

He also knows the alphabet but can't read, just spells out words.

Currently he is going to have an early intervention teacher to help him with his imaginative play and social skills and we will be seeing a psychologist for an assessment soon. A couple of months ago we were told to stop him playing with number and letters and to really encourage imaginative play. Not sure how to stop it completely though.

No advice though!

Rilly we were told to try and limit it too which proved more or less impossible because he'd use anything to make letters Duplo, stickle bricks, brio tracks. Plus he was happy to read and if you removed the books he'd read subtitles, instructions on toys, video covers etc. Ed psych at his assessment at three described him as having extreme obsessions although now at 16 they've more or less gone and he reads only enough to do his schoolwork and no more.

I wish we'd asked for a referral earlier. When I tentatively voiced concerns, preschool teachers waxed lyrical about how advanced his literacy and numeracy skills were, and since he's 'active but odd' socially- interested in other children but not sure how to join in appropriately- and doesn't tend to have meltdowns, his early years settings never saw a problem. Nobody ever suggested trying to limit his letters and numbers play... What form does the imaginative play intervention take rilly?

It's one of those many things about our children that makes them fascinating and delightful rather than annoying and irritating! I love it. It must be really interesting to study autism if you aren't dealing with the day to day upsetting stuff.

Ds1 has very strong hyperlexic traits. He loves the concept of words, letters and numbers and as he gets older is starting to learn more about the mechanics of them. He will spend literally hours writing out names for example. He insists on knowing how many seconds there are in 15 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour, a day etc (yes, I did work them out for him). Of course this now means if we slip up and say "in a minute" to him he diligently counts down from 60 to 1 and then says a minute's over .
He does have significant difficulties in understanding a lot of what he reads though, unless the plot is very clearly laid out and well structured, he won't understand it. He has, however, a love of the old Winnie the Pooh stories and will sit and write them out again, but this time using his own imaginary character - Sammy Squirrel .
I also have strong hyperlexic traits, but not as much as Ds1 as I do not have the understanding difficulties. But I will frequently (as in every day) do the following as an example:

1: Read a lot. This used to be 2 - 3 books a day, but it waned when I had the lads, so now is only 1 book a day, 2 if I have the time.

2: Count the number of letter "es" on a page, or noticeboard. This is because "e" is the most common letter in the English alphabet. I do the same for the codewords in my puzzle books.

3: Starting on the first line, then proceeding downwards a line at a time, seeing how far I can get through the alphabet consecutively. If I get to the end of a run I can start again if there is an "a" on the next line.

4: Reading advertisements/notices/labelling them and dissecting them to within an inch of their lives. "Ahh, it says 'up to', it says 'possible', it says 'should' rather than 'must'.

5: Counting series of numbers in my head.

6: Working out long multiples in my head and going through my times tables. This one is something that came to me in adulthood, when I worked out a different method for long multiplication than the one taught to me in school, which I could never grasp.

Yes, I am immensely sad. No, I don't care .

Rilly, rathyer than stopping it completely, could you not incorporate his love of numbers and letters into the imaginative play? Start off in an understated way, just rolling a train along a track for example and saying "how long until he gets to the station, one, two, three, four, five, aha, five seconds and the train's at the station." Or if he hates trains, something else that he enjoys. Then build up on it. It's what I did with Ds1 and he incorporates it into his own play now. Eg over the holidays he was digging to Australia and was counting his digs as he did so.

Wow bullet- 2-3 books a day! I think I have a few hyperlexic traits- read early, see patterns everywhere, good phonological skills, but not as marked as you describe. In fact, now I'm beginning to accept that ds1 really is AS, I'm seeing traits in myself that explain things I've always found difficult and frustrating, e.g. maintaining appropriate eye contact, chipping in at the right moment in conversation, seeing the big picture... having said that I do have a good social life, so there's hope for ds1!

One of ds1's principal joys in life is to curl up in an armchair with his grandpa and do the Times codeword (each number represents a letter, and you break the code by using information about the frequencies of letters in English- rocks his boat in so many ways!)

You're right ellen, it is fascinating and wonderful, but it's sometimes hard to remember to celebrate it amidst the worry of what their difference will mean as they grow up.

My ds is just beginning to show glimmers of imaginative play at 5, which I think he's picking up from school peers, and it often does involve letters or numbers, eg being a builder and measuring up jobs with a ruler.

hi,my son was like this when he was younger,he didnt say very much before 3 but then he could read,write and spell.
He is 7 now and still able to read well now but will only read books if/when he wants to,and he doesnt like small print either.

I keep seeing traits in myself as well. How much fun I could have with a telephone directory! [chmm]

I read Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to DS2 when he was 5 or 6 and he memorised the 20 or so chapters titles, names, numbers and what page they were on. No use to man nor beast, but endearing. He used to memorise CD info, like order of songs, date of song in a compilation, and track length in minutes and seconds. Great for trivia quizes.

But seriously, it is a very useful skill to have, so long as schools aren't fooled into thinking the comprehension matches the reading ability, or their difficulties will be missed. It makes learning a lot easier once they have got to the 'read to learn' stage.

DS2 is like this as well. Absolutely obsessed with letters, numbers, reading, counting.... we actually use this as a distraction when he is getting geared up for a meltdown. You can see him getting stressed, and a simple numbers/counting/letter/search for this letter or word game can completely distract him. Very useful when doing the grocery shop.

It does mean that I have to limit reading mumsnet to when he is not able to read over my shoulder as there's some colourful language here I don't want him to pick up.

Hi, my dd2 has ASD and Hyperlexia, she became interested in letters at the age of 18 months, she became obsessed with her magnetic letters and numbers, by the time she was 2 she knew her alphabet (forwards and backwards) and could count to 30 (by arranging her magnets), she was non-verbal until she was 3.5, she's now 5 and has taught herself to read and can count to 100+ and do simple maths sums.

was dd2 when she was 3.

Its deffently a great skill to have .

Aww, Marne, what a cutie! [csmile]