ASD or PDA or something else?.....

[Floopytheloopy]

Me again.

I just thought while it's in my head I should just list my DD's symptoms as they are currently. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, as at the minute I feel like i'm going in all directions but getting nowhere.

She is 4.5.

*Has a speech delay(understands most of what i'm saying but takes things quite literally. She does have a sense of humour though and can understand sarcasm)
*Poor social skills ie, on the surface seems very sociable but lacks the necessary tools to be able to sustain a friendship. For example she very over the top and bouncy. She does have very good imaginative play though, which will initially work in her favour.
*Alot of the time she seems trapped in a fantasy land ie she's acting out a film or a particular day which sticks with her.
*Tends to use learnt phrases to express herself.
*Tantrums, although these are much less frequent and shorter. Tends to squeal, which is a new think. Short, loud bursts. She'll collapse onto the ground and then may appear fine.
*Routine is a tricky one actually. she can be very in need of routine for some things,but when I deliberately switch things around, she can deal with it.
*She doesn't seem to understand the difference between tomorrow and not for a long time. If it's in the future it's all the same. Same goes with the past.
*Cries a lot.
*She can understand facial expressions and does sometimes show sincere empathy.
*Can be very loving.

*Scarily good memory at times.
*Can be reasoned with and definitely does understand right from wrong.
*She does work well on a reward scheme( i know that goes against the usual behaviour of PDA)

I understand that a few weren't symptoms as such, but thought it was important to note what traits she definitely doesn't have in contrast ISWIM.

What does anybody think? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. :)

Sorry for the length and thanks for reading.
*

Well since we're playing a guessing game, I'd say ASD, but really you need proper medical opinion.

I know i'm only asking opinions here Starlight. I was just having a tough time and felt like I needed to make a fresh and current list. Thanks for your post.

It will drive you nuts. Is she? isn't she? what is she?

You need to get a map and plan out a sensible route to a destination. God knows it is hard enough when you are given a dx, but faffing around in the dark will drive you insane.

It shouldn't be like that. Support and intervention should be based on needs and difficulties, but that isn't the way it is, and I feel strongly for those who's children don't get a label because they have to hang around in no-mans land possibly forever.

well said Starlight

Hmm I don't think that i'm faffing about. My dd is getting support at school. She isn't falling through the net. We have always been in close contact with the school, talking about her progress and monitoring it closely.

No, she doesn't have a "label" as of yet, but that doesn't mean that she will be hanging around in no-mans land as you put it. With respect, I don't think that it's necessary for me to have to justify why my dd doesn't have a diagnosis at present. I feel very strongly that my dd gets all the help and support she needs.Of course I do! It's rather condisending if you don't mind to suggest that i'm "faffing around".

All I was hoping for when I sent my OP was for some help with defining the differences between Autism and PDA.

Having said all that, I respect your opinion. We all have a right to it afterall.

apparently the difference with PDA and autism is that PDA kids have delayed speech and then all of a sudden speak extremely well, they also speak like adults and like adult company. They work better to indirect commands and basically spoken to like a spoilt child that appears to get their own way all the time. eg: Apparently, and i keep saying apparently,lol, they wont accept any demands made on them whatsoever without having a meltdown, my son WILL go to fetch something for me but if hes asked to do something that would put pressure on him, eg: reading a book, drawing a picture (hes currently not at school) going somewhere he doesnt know he has a full blown meltdown and its extremely verbally and physically aggressive.

EP said that PDA kids dont need routine/structure, this doesnt fit with my son as he needs to know whats happening BUT like your daughter if i have to change something he will accept it. He is extremely controlling around friends and appears as bossy and has to be the leader and will ignore rules the other kids imply, i have to watch him carefully. The EP originally said my son who is 6.5 years had aspergers and is now saying PDA but im not sure and will see what the paed assessment says in May. My son didnt speak properly till he was 3 and it sort of appeared overnight and he talks like an old man, everyone that meets him is amazed at his grown up, deadpan, serious face and speech. He is very very serious. Apparently this points to PDA and not ASD, but like i say im not sure as PDA seems to be bounded around now as a new diagnosis.

ive waffled and it probably doesnt make much sense as im rushing,lol, got to go now but if you want to chat, feel free to get in touch.xx p.s hes also very unaffectionate, which is horrible. He doesnt like cuddles unless on his terms, which may be once a day for a 5mins if im lucky, he wont be consoled if hurt or upset and at the moment im teaching him to ask people if they want to do something with him instead of him TELLING them, he really doesnt seem to understand. He will say to a kid "were playing ......and you are doing ....", he has listened for the last few days of me correcting him and ive overheard him saying to kids "would you like to ......" really hard work it is! xx

EP also said that PDA kids think they are adults, hence the maturity in the speech and liking adult company BUT i thought aspergers children also were very mature verbally and liked adult company so i dunno, i think they should just stick to one diagnosis personally, they either have autism or they dont

brandy77. Thanks for that. It was nice to finally get a useful response.

Something that really stuck out that you said was that your ds spoke like an old man. A month or so ago I was talking to the TA who basically works with my dd sort of on a 1 to 1 basis and she said that she loved my dd, she really makes them laugh cos she sounds like an old lady. At the time I was rather offended, but I didn't show it cos I know there was no bad intent there. But it's the first time i've heard anybody else descirbe their child like that.

My dd's speech is probably behind a year or so. You can have a conversation with her though. We have family round at the moment and she's an angel. Her speech is much better, her behaviour has been brilliant and her social skills are more where they should be. Tomorrow though(when everyone goes home) it could all change and go back to a rather prominant delay. That's why we've held off for so long to get things officially assessed, because she can behave "normally" for a significant amount of time.

Thanks for your help anyway. It has cleared a few things up.

It's great to hear that your ds is improving with his social skills and well done you for battling on. And yes, it is bloody hard!

Do you mind if I ask you if your ds is behind atall academically. Or if he isn't now, was he?

Floopy I don't think Starlight was directing those comments at you personally .. I think they were based around the experience of many who have been and are currently going through the same. Those who seek and struggle to get support and/or a dx for their children. I think many people initially ask about behavioral symptoms on here for 2 main reasons; 1. they are too scared to seek professional advice for fear of 'knowing' (sometimes we just need a bit of time and clarity to get it straight in our own heads) and 2. to seek advice and share experiences whilst they are waiting for those professional assessments etc. It's rare for people to 'attack' on the SN board. I was often given opinions I didn't want to hear, but at the end of the day, I asked them for it. Don't take opinions personally, some will often be short and to the point ... they can get a bit lost in translation [busmile]

MadameSin- I don't feel I was being attacked atall. I was just looking for some genuine help and felt like that post had kind of tainted the point.

I probably slightly took it too much to heart, but at the same time I didn't want people reading it for the first time, with the idea to help hopefully, thinking I was just time wasting or not doing what is best for my DD.

I understand that you cant read the tone of text, but then maybe it's for that reason that when we're dealing with such seinsitve situations and possibly rather fragile parents, we shouldn't be quite so short and sharp. That's just my opinion. I just would hate to make someone feel like they weren't doing a very good parenting job.

Floopy, I think part of what Starlight might have been getting at is - it doesn't really matter what the label is - if your child needs help, then she needs help (and I note you say she is getting good support - which is a great start)

I have a probable PDA dd2, and I really don't think that there is much difference at all between HFA/AS/PDA - the levels of anxiety might fluctuate, there might be language differences, but overall, in terms of how to help, and what to do - it should always be centred on what the individual child needs.

I worry a LOT when I see that there are blanket statements being applied to the differences between PDA and ASD.

form reading brandy77's post - I would look at that rundown (delayed speech, but then reasonably fluent, albeit with eccentricities) and say HFA.

I have read lists of supposed difference between ASD and PDA, but disagreed with almost all of wht was listed as an ASD "trait", to be contrasted with how PDA presents, and so for me, the list of differences is flawed (and I was keeping my dd1, who has severe ASD in mind when reading them - contrasting my own 2 children, if you will)

in my household, the difference between dd1 and dd2 is langugae, pure and simple. dd1 has a huge language delay/disorder. dd2 has idiosyncrtic language, and a few comprehension problems - eg she doesn't understand idioms or sarcasm. but her language is otherwise very advanced, and she sounds like a mini-professor, with very precise diction.

other than that, the traits that the 2 show are incredibly similar. dd2's anxiety presents itself differently as she can refuse and manipulate in language terms. dd1's anxiety is absolute, and comes out more as a sheer panic at being overwhelmed. however, once you start unravellign what is actually going on, then we deal with the anxieties in exactly the same way (which is also why I am mystified by the often repeated refrain that PDA is dealt with in an entirely different way)

'as at the minute I feel like i'm going in all directions but getting nowhere.'

Implies you are stuck in no-mans land. I was warning you to make sure you don't lose time as months at this age are critical for changing affecting the outcome and your child's potential.

I'm sorry if I came across as blunt. I have been accused of it before so perhaps it's a fair point, but wooly-time-wasting is the remit of a large number of LA personnel, and not for me. Time is short so I just don't mince my words.

If your DD is getting appropriate support then that is brilliant and unusual to hear. However, don't just assume that all support is equal, and do make sure you evaluate it regularly.

Floppy asked "Do you mind if I ask you if your ds is behind atall academically. Or if he isn't now, was he?"

yes my son is behind academically, he missed a lot of schooling in reception due to very frequent hospital admissions (also has rare medical conditions), he didnt get appropriate support so when he started year 1 his confidence and motivation hit rock bottom as he had missed basic phonic work, struggled with reading and didnt attempt writing as i understand a lot of children on ASD refuse to write. He has had a half a WISC test completed and the results showed possible slow processing. EP couldnt complete the test because she said his anxiety was rising so im hoping the paed in May will attempt further. He is bright verbally to a mind numbing degree with how he speaks, hes continuously talking and asking questions non stop and comes out with comments that make you think, wow, you are smart BUT getting in on paper is a huge barrier. I am trying to home teach him, but home teaching a child with demand avoidance is extremely depressing and demoralising and as the EP said, im his mum and shouldnt be his teacher too but i cant just sit back and wait for him to get a statement or not get a statement and then get the support he needs so i plod on!!

Just remembered how the EP described him at the beginning of her report when she thought it was PDA, she said she was amazed to meet a child that looks the size of a 4 year old but spoke like a 15 year old