ABA- So it's not the Swedish Supergroup?

[Gigglebizmizz]

Please excuse me absolute ignorance have only just had shock out of the blue DX for DD that she has ASD. I know you are probably tired of the subject but if anyone could recommend some books to get me started it sounds like something I would really like to try. Typed ABA in amazon and was bombarded with a load of titles which is best for practical home use?

I haven't found any single book to be a perfect introduction, but this was quite good in the early days.

Thanks have ordered it

I'd recommend the Mary Barbera book too. Also Catherine Maurice Let Me Hear Your Voice - haven't read it myself but have heard it's good for parents who are newcomers to ASD and to ABA.

I also read Robert Schramm - Educate Towards Recovery (about Verbal Behaviour approach to ABA). It's a bit technical at first (ie lots of terminology and I had to keep referring back to the glossary to start with) but very informative.

Sorry for your dd's diagnosis, especially as it was such a shock to you. How old is she? Stick around this board, there is a huge amount of knowledge and information shared.

I put an article on mumsnet blogs all about aba, maybe check it out?

Thanks Bialystockand bloom (your name made me smile am a big Producers fan) DD is 4 really had just thought all her bizarre random comments were quirky and all just about being a 4 year old but since Ed pysch has reviewed her and told us ASD and now having looed up the symptoms she is a classic case. I find if I take a hard line strict approach to be her tantrums (ie put her in her room with baby gate closed and let her scream it out ) she is a lot better behaved but DP and his father seem to ruining all my efforts by running after her and doing everything for her and not telling her off when she hits them etc. As you can imagine it has caused a lot of arguments!!! Also have a 12 week old baby so feel so guilty not spending quality time with him as DD seems to have a different appt every single day SALT , OH ,ENT etc etc. Sorry for rant feeling selfishly sorry for myself and still trying to convince myself there is nothing really wrong and all can be fixed.

Don't know if you're still reading this thread gigglebizmizz but just wanted to say, imvho ABA is as (if not more so) effective as anything else in achieving your goal that "all can be fixed".

No, of course autism cannot be cured. But behaviour can be changed, understanding and functional language can be improved, social interaction and communication can be improved, and aggression reduced/eliminated.

It's hard when you're the only one setting the boundaries, I suspect many of us here with ASD children have been through the same thing with DPs/DHs lagging well behind in terms of admitting and addressing difficulties. If/when you start ABA make sure DP (and his dad if possible) comes to the workshops and understands and applies it - consistency is absolutely key, as you know already! I would try and put your foot down about the hitting though - ask him if he'd be happy if she was still hitting him when she's 10, and if not, how does he suggest tackling it, as it's unlikely she'll grow out of it on her own without intervention.

Don't worry about neglecting ds - I'm sure he's happy enough tagging along to the appts as long as he's with you. Again, most of here share the guilt about other siblings missing out etc, but the little chap is so little I'm sure all he cares about is being with you, and meeting other people isn't bad for him in any case.

Thanks for the name recognition Yours made me smile too, Gigglebloodybiz has been ds's favourite programme since it started, I know virtually every episode by heart

Can anyone explain the difference between ABA and Hanen?

Can ABA help verbal children? My ds talks a lot, but much of it is chunks memorised from books or things I say to him.

'Conversations' consist of us asking him leading questions and prompting him to describe the day. His favourite conversations are him being Lightning McQueen or an animal or other vehicle and recreating a story he's seen/heard. Could therapy help him to have a real give/take conversation about stuff in the real world?

Sorry to hjack your thread gbmizz. I too am in a state of shock from recent dx. I'm overwhelmed by the range of info on the internet and underwhelmed by the amount info we got from the neurologist/SaLT: a vague dx and 'we'll send you our report in a few weeks.'

Lenin "But he only stopped spitting when we completely stopped reacting to it, at all, ever. Then he stopped niggling DS2 when we rewarded him immediately and unexpectedly for playing nicely with him."

Well there you have it - ABA in a nutshell

I wasn't suggesting that a child with asd would never grow out of any behaviours naturally. But if a certain behaviour (eg aggression) is continuing way beyond an nt child of the same age, and not responding to the normal techniques applied to nt children (eg saying no, punishments, sanctions, time-out, whatever), specific, tailored intervention has to be applied. I would say that a 4yo hitting parents is beyond the normal expectation for her peers, and she will definitely require some extra intervention to stop it. If she's got this far with no consequences for it, she's learnt that it's a pretty effective way of getting what she wants, so of course she's going to continue.

oodles sorry I don't know too much about Hanen but have read lots of great-sounding stuff about it on this board (in particular, More Than Words seems highly recommended).

"Could therapy help him to have a real give/take conversation about stuff in the real world?" yes yes yes

ABA definitely used for verbal children (my ds has been verbal since a year old), and appropriate communication can absolutely be 'taught' through ABA - we've spent a large amount of our time doing just this with our programme (Verbal Behaviour strand of ABA). In fact, our consultant told us that the kind of echololia you describe is a great sign, and shows that a child has a real, innate desire to communicate (a great starting point), so just needs to be taught the skills how to communicate appopriately.

The cynic in me would suggest that you don't waste any more time waiting for helpful or useful provision from the paed/neurologist/salt etc. You will find 10 times more useful practical help, support and info from boards like this one

I know what you mean - when we started ABA I found it very hard to ignore ds crying, and to resist giving him the unconditional attention I'd been used to doing (whether negative or positive attention). For 3 years we'd been used (as most parents are) to responding to a tantrum, either by giving him what he wanted, negotiating, bribing, cajoling, distracting. Then when the tantrum had finished (usually on his terms, having got what he wanted) I'd give him a big old cuddle as it was so horrid to see him so upset.

Now I look back and think not only was he getting his own way on everything, but I was actually rewarding him for using totally inappropriate means of getting what he wanted (ie aggression). And the thing was that he wasn't any happier. To him, the boundaries were never clear or consistent. He was getting lots of my attention, but it wasn't helping his development. And he was controlling the entire household at the age of 3 - we were actually in fear of his tantrums.

Despite the inevitable 'extinction bursts', and occasional down days (today was one) he is so, so, so much happier generally than a year ago. He can communicate so much more effectively, can use language rather than aggression to control his environment, and he gets so much more positive attention - just like yours, that is the goal of pretty much most of his behaviour (I've read that generally around 90% of behaviour is basically attention-seeking in one form or another).

Does your ds have a dx of ASD? Have you read Robert Schramm 'Educate Toward Recovery'? Very good section on the 'controlling child'.

Btw the Robert Schramm book is about VB/ABA, and is aimed at those with dc with ASD, but the section on control is relevant to so many other children, not just those with autism.

This is one of the best books I ever bought

www.autismtrust.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=22&Itemid=22

Thanks for some more great advice as always guys I don't know what I would do without this website saw that some-one had mentioned rebound therapy the other day to help with balance and dyspraxia so I asked the occupational therapist and she had never heard of it ........ Quelle surprise!!!!
By DD is a lover of the random comments I can see where they come from so for eg she will see an apple in the fruit bowl and say"Snow white lives with the 7 dwarfs" (she associates the apple with the poison apple and wicked queen) today she started talking about Santa for no reason whatsoever it drives me bloody mad. Bialy what is the best way to deal with the random stuff I have started cutting her off and saying " We are not talking about Santa we were talking about the weather etc etc." How did you combat that? Whilst I want it to stop I don't want to put her off communicating. Have laid down a few ground rules with the FIL and have had a bit of a break from him for a bit.

'rebound therapy' is just a fancy term for trampolining

Any exercise is good for kids (or adults) who are a bit..all over the place.

I Know Moondog pity the Ot doesn't have a clue bought a kids trampoline for the garden and DD is crazy about it had a wee friend over for a playdate and great to see them taking turns on it. Today was a good day.

How nice.

I think you are on the right track, cutting conversations that meandr off track short and/or leading them back to the subject in hand.
Can seem a bit mean but if you don't do it then it will make life difficult for her with others.

Bricks, the link you gave is to the website, not to a specific book. What is the book you recommend, am very interested. Thanks.

Lenin, yes it is hard to see the anxiety and the awareness of not understanding the situation but not knowing why. The ABA we've done with ds has helped equip him with the skills to a) help understand the situation, and b) know what to do. The control over his environment is definitely a way of reassuring himself that things are familiar, ok, that nothing unpredictable will happen that he doesn't know how to cope with. Fair enough - most of us do what is familiar, don't we.

My ds has a lot symptoms of PDA too. I don't even quite know where to place him actually - HFA in some ways, Aspergers in others, PDA in some ways. Virtually no classic autistic traits at all, but still a dx of ASD. There is so much crossover. All you can do is treat the problems individually, not the 'condition'. When do you see a paed?

x-posts sorry.

What we tend to do when ds is going on and on (currently it's either traffic lights or length of sleeves (don't ask! ) is basically what you do already - talk over it about something completely different. Doesn't matter what, or how random the new topic is, or even whether it turns into a new conversation - just enough to drown out what she's saying (sorry, that sounds brutal and abrupt though it isn't, iyswim).

Our tutors will sometimes acknowledge what he's talking about but tell him explicitly they're not going to talk about it. Eg often when they arrive he'll greet them with something about whether they've got short or long sleeves. They'll say "we're not talking about sleeves now ds" then move on to a completely new topic.

It doesn't stop him wanting to communicate - just guides him into what is more appropriate conversation, and shows him that it is more rewarding for him (usually by giving him attention, which is a huge motivator for him) if he goes along with someone else's topic of conversation.

Still the basic principle - attention for appropriate behaviour, no attention for inappropriate behaviour.