Do you think mainstream school is right for SN kids?

[whatever17]

Just wondering what people think.

I, personally, don't.

DS2 is tired of being "different" and I am delighted that he is going to a dyslexia (et al) secondary school in September. I think mainstream has toughened him up but it has been bloody hard.

As Ellen has said you cannot shut SN kids away, there are going to have to live and survive in society and the more they are exposed to it, and society of them the easier I feel that they will find it. Of course there is a need for SS, not every child can cope with MS school and MS with the child.

My daughter attends a special school and in no way do I feel she is 'shut away'. We tried MS, a MS primary with a special unit (horrrific) and had a two year battle with the LEA to get her current placement.

It may be a unpleasant fact but for many children with special needs their inclusion is only locational and they will mainly have work set and marked by a TA.

Sorry, vjg, I didn't mean to imply that DC who need a SS are shut away. That would be really rude and I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like. I know SS can be fantastic, warm and inspiring places.

It's just that not all DC with SN do need SS for all their schooling and in the past (when I was growing up) they would have no option but a SS. If a MS school just lets a DC be taught by a TA then that's merely integration, not inclusion and the school is at fault.

If you want a yes/no answer, then no. For a lot of kids, maybe most kids ... no.

If you want a theoretical answer, well in an ideal world every child who could fit into mainstream, would. The ones who couldn't fit would be the kids whose environmental or educational needs were so different to mainstream kids that there was no middle ground at all, and the adaptations necessary for the kids with SN would seriously impact the learning of the NT kids.

We're not in an ideal world though, are we? In reality, mainstream schools are funded to only be able to make little adjustments and only a small % of kids with SN have needs that are met by those minor tweaks and are able to thrive as a result.

I dont believe so, no

DD is in mainstream primary and we are very happy with the placement, but it is only working because of the very high level of support that she receives, which was very hard won by us going to Tribunal. It is a small single form entry village school, very friendly, all the staff know her and the other children by their names.
I do however worry about the amount of time she spends out of the class with a LSA, but I believe that she benefits from being in mainstream. But I can't imagine her surviving in a mainstream secondary.
I think it depends on the child and on the school.

Again it depends on the child and the school. My ds is too severe for MS, however he has many issues with special school so can't access that either. So has been at home nearly a year now. There is no school suitable in our authority.

It is definitely a question of the child and the school and also of what the child wants.

Like most people here, I've been battling away at school and the LA for the last couple of years to get DS the help he needs at his m/s school. Sometimes school has been very difficult for him and it is hard for him to last through the whole day as he tires easily.

School have at times been useless but then 'inclusion' so often means that schools are just left to get on with the delivery of provision on a statement with flaky levels of support from 'experts' who actually don't know much about anything.

But my son feels he belongs to his school. He has friends and his brother goes there and school are trying their best. He is intelligent and sees himself and wants to be treated the same way as his peers.

Would he fare better at special school? I don't know and long-term it may be what he needs, but, for now, he is happy and feels one of the crowd and that's enough for me.

My God, though, the battle you have undergo to make inclusion work. You'd think LAs would be trying to support parents who go down this route but they don't and it is little wonder that so many end up battling for SS as it is the only place their child feels safe and understood. But it shouldn't be like that.

vjg13 - my DS2 (11) was offered a place in a unit (or whatever they are called now) in a big secondary.

I just hated the thought - I remember being at an MS secondary myself and how we thought of the kids in the unit. I do think kids are more diversity aware today and it could possibly have worked.

However, I wanted DS taught at his pace rather than sitting there having the whole lesson "translated" by an LSA for 35 hours a week.

For anyone who wonders about getting an independent placement PM me if you like and I will tell you the lawyers and processes that I used.

For DD1, I firmly believe that 'inclusion' is exclusion...her needs are too complex to be catered for in MS in a way that would both meet her needs and include her.

She goes to Special School and THRIVES...she is valued, she is loved, she is respected...she is given independence like none she could ever have in MS, because the environment is safe enough that, if she were to run away (as she does), she could come to no harm.

In a MS school, they would be trying to keep her in the classroom, not teaching her.

In MS school, they would be trying to keep her in the classroom, not teaching her

Unfortunately, they would be keeping her in the corridor, not the classroom. How many children with SN in mainstream spend half their time in a corridor with a TA? It never looks that fun, frankly. I would rather DS is in a classroom, with his peers.

I would like to see all SN schools co-located - SN and MS joined but seperate where necessary.

I wouldn't have considered SS for my son, and actually looking at a local Private one I believed he would underachieve there, he is dyslexic.

His school does have a unit for Visually impaired pupils, and it is fabulous. It does just provide support for the visually impaired pupils, the school is fully supportive of enabling the pupils from the unit to be fully integrated into school life. For instance a totally blind girl did D of E with the sighted pupils, and she actually refused any special provision being made for her. Her achievements were specially celebrated with the others who did D of E.

Another key thing is that having the unit means that the school has taken on helping raise funds for a school for Albino children in Africa (it has a few Albino children in the Unit).

But I do think for some children a MS secondary is not suitable, it really depends on the child and the school. This school is great but not every child thrives there; secondary age is a tricky time with lots of emotional pressures.

BakeliteBelle, totally agree.

Even when my daughter attended a unit within a MS primary all the kids with additional needs spent loads of time sat out individually in the corridor with a TA. My daughter lost independence skills too by having a one to one TA in MS and expected lots of coaxing and pleading to do anything.

Thats why its so much more about the atitude of the school, my ds2 has NEVER been taught in the corridor.
He is in the class (very small classes) with his TA supporting him.

He does miss some elements of school, some assemblies (which he hates anyway) to work on some individual stuff (salt programme for example).
But most of his targeted stuff (ot programme, social skills) he does with a small group of children from within his class or the yr below.

His senco is very good at identifying other kids within the school who would benefit from similar work & making sure ds2 is not isolated and working alone.

His TA is also very good at only helping him when he really needs it, all kids make mistakes at school & a child with sn should be no different.

It depends on the child.

DS2 went to a SS for ASD, now he is in MS wth full 1:1. I don't think he will be in MS for the duration though, and can see him going back to a SS. He is quite a sociable child, so is going to MS to get some social interaction. If/when he returns to a SS, he will go to one that has children that are sociable, so probably not th ASD one.

Imho, i think that it is the way that MS schools are made to conform to the days curriculum and evaluation processes that cause the most problems for our DCs. If you are not given enough leeway as a school to teach in style that can encompass more styles of learning, if the curriculum is so tightly packed that if the pace isn't kept up it can't be taught, if the evaluation processes mean 'special measures' for schools that don't 'process' each child 'effectively', then many MS will not be suitable. All children are individuals, SN and NT. No one teaching style fits all.
In my schooldays (there is no old crotchety emoticon) the pace of learning was far slower. We had time to absorb concepts and time for the teacher to individualise the topic to be as inclusive as possible for as many as possible. There was less pressure on both teachers and pupils. I don't honestly think that we came out less well educated by this method.
So perhaps we should be asking why schools do not fit our DCs, not which school will our DCs fit?
btw, my DS goes to MS - but not the first MS, we had to change to one with a far more relaxed approach to learning methods!

my ds2 goes to a sn school hes got gdd/ld