No major problems at school so are we just crap parents?

[Sops]

Had a meeting tonight with ds (almost 5) teacher.
There have been concerns about his impulsive, aggressive behaviour and problems with following instructions during this first year (we've had a meeting with head and senco at teacher's suggestion) and although they haven't magically disappeared it seems school are not greatly concerned at this stage.
However, although things seem to be alrightish at school now, at home things have slowly but steadily deteriorated. There will be the occasional bout of good behaviour but the general trend is definitely downwards.
I've been worried about his behaviour since he was about 3. He had lots of problems at nursery school, but as he was so young we thought he would mature out of it.
We have read dozens of parenting books and tried tons of behavioural techniques to no avail and I now am feeling completely helpless and clueless as to what to do with him.
I have read a lot about Pathological Demand Avoidance and dh and I both feel like this is a very very good fit for ds, but maybe we are just fooling ourselves and it is really just down to us being ineffective parents.
We have a dd (7) too, and although she has not always been the easiest of children to manage, when we have had issues with her behaviour we have used strategies and we have succeeded in ameliorating the problem. I know all children are not the same but the contrast between the two of them is dramatic.
We have been referred to see the community paed and family steps but in the meantime I'm feeling a bit helpless and alone...

Don't feel badly. They obviously recognise that something is going on with your child, or you wouldn't have been referred to the paed. If he had problems at nursery, they're bound to have some records of it to some extent as well. Lots of times these issues don't get recognised and supported until children reach school - we brought up our concerns regarding our DS2 repeatedly to the GPs at our surgery only to be brushed off and told he was fine. Now, of course, these same GPs are saying he's most definitely NOT fine. But nobody really listened to us and our concerns until he got to reception.

Some parents have mentioned that their children struggle all day to cope with school, and then fall apart when they get home. Our DS2 is happy to let loose all day, so they've seen him in all his glory. But we've seen a shortened version of that when we've taken him to get his haircut - we could see him struggling to sit still and get through it, then his behaviour literally fell to pieces for the rest of the afternoon. Is he perhaps doing this?

I'm sure there will be more people posting shortly with good advice. Sorry I can't really offer much by way of stellar advice. This is the tough part where we all feel a bit shell shocked and confused and looking for answers.

I'd agree with Triggles. Children with various SN can try really hard to confirm in school with lots of structure built in and role models. Then, at home, where they feel secure and know you will love them whatever, they can release all that pent up energy.

Like Triggles, my DS can be as horrid at school as he can be at home! He has absolutely no social embarrassment. Sounds like your DS has hit that developmental milestone at least!

I spend a lot of time thinking well maybe he's OK and he will grow out of this, and then he does something and I just think- that cannot be right for him to be behaving like that surely?
I think the professionals we've met so far do see that there is something that needs investigating but much of his behaviour is confusingly contradictory, some of the characteristics match adhd, but then others are the exact opposite. eg. he does squirm and fidget, but then can also concentrate for long periods on lego or similar.
The fact that he's improved slightly at school yet deteriorated at home just seems to be another puzzle. Back when he was at nursery he had most of his issues there and at home was fairly manageable.
When we have a bad day with him I just want to curl up in a ball somewhere and cry for him.
I don't want him to be angry at the world anymore and I just don't know how to help him.

Ellenjane, he has no social embarrassment when we are out in public- none whatsoever. He is getting to the age where strangers are really staring when he lets out a super-loud whine and starts to cry because he wants to sit in a different chair.
He behaves badly in front of other children with no compunction at all.

It's pretty common for children to behave differently at school to how they behave at home. Sometimes the behaviour can also switch around too. My ds (AS) used to behave well at pre-school and be a nightmare at home - until his behaviour suddenly changed and he was a nightmare at pre-school but great at home.

The same thing happened when he first started school and his teacher had no problems with him at all. A few weeks later and she said that he'd obviously now "got his feet firmly under the table" and his behaviour had changed accordingly.

If there's any specific behaviours you need ideas about, there will usually be someone else on here who's either going through it now or has been through it in the past.

I think that it is the fact that you have 'tried tons of behaviour techniques' -just pick one, and be consistent. You need to give it time, sometimes it can take months before you get a break through. I would say that he is alrightish at school because they are consistent and he knows the expectations.

Triggles, you might be right that he is 'storing it up' while at school and has to let it out once he's released.
We had my niece (7) and nephew (3) to stay for the weekend and both dh and I felt a bit 'down' afterwards as it is just so clear that he is distinctly different to the others.

I think we are pretty consistent really.
Everything we have tried we have really committed to, but reward charts, consequences, withdrawing privileges, have not been effective.
We've been using timeouts for a very, very long time. At least this way he is removed from the situation. But it still has no bearing on whether he repeats the behaviour or not.
I know that with dd these techniques work perfectly so it can't be entirely our ineptitude.
Unless we start to lock him in cupboards I really don't think what else to do.

We are pretty consistent with DS2 as well. Often it can be same situation, same behaviour, same consequences from us, and he will react completely different from the day before. No rhyme or reason to it. And we could go through it every day for a week, and the next day still do it again and look surprised that he's called to task for it. Some days it's like he's Dory from Finding Nemo. That's actually one of DH & I's ways of keeping from getting overly upset with it - we get this mental image of that little blue fish saying "hi I'm Dory" on a loop.

Trust your instincts and if you feel ready to start the formal assessment route then goto your GP and ask for a refferal to whosoever deals with child development in your area. Don't feel disheartened if others don't see what you see - you know your child best.

You are not alone most of us have been right where you are now. It does take a long time sometimes too long but you will get there in the end.

Just done the strengths and difficulties questionnaire, scored abnormal on four fields, borderline on the other one.
His score for prosocial was 0- can't get any lower than that!

Alright - so no more of this crap parent crap cos you wouldn't be posting here or caring if you were a crap parent......

Thanks wasuup, I know there is something not right and the strengths and difficulties thing certainly brings that into sharp focus.
His teacher said to me this morning that I should go back to the gp (who was sympathetic, but basically passed the buck to school in terms of referral) and "tell him how it really is". Also school nurse rang me back and told me that the 6-8 weeks wait is just to get a letter from comm paed and family steps, could not say how long appt would be!
I said I thought we needed Camhs too and she said go back to your gp and really tell them you need help.
I guess there is that natural reticence to go in and say my child is a real problem- it seems so disloyal. But if you don't tell them what it's really like, you won't get the help you need.
My plan now is to go back to gp with a carefully crafted killer argument that ds needs to be referred to norsaca. That is the place that can actually help him.
As far as I can see they are just about the only place that has any expertise in PDA, so why waste nhs money and precious time seeing loads of different people who aren't going to know the first thing about PDA?
I'm too confused and scared of making things worse to embark on a proper ABA thing at the moment. I know I haven't got the emotional resilience to carry things out properly or the energy to figure it out.
I have started doing my random rewards as I planned the other day, (a sweet for both a few times for playing nicely together) which obviously will take time to build into a learned behaviour. I can't bring myself to reward every good thing because I know from past experience that it just makes him completely fixated on the reward and totally grizzly all the time he that he isn't getting rewarded.

Yes, the conference is in November isn't it?
We are going to be there

God only knows if I stand any chance of getting to NORSACA. On the page about referrals it says that children can be referred by their family doctor or other professional so who knows. There's nothing to be lost by asking, the worst that can happen is that they say no.
I am just going to gather together a dossier of evidence in the hope that I can scare them into compliance with my organisational prowess (and give them the impression that I am going to be such a pain in the arse if they say no, that they might as well give in now!!)

The school nurse implied that the anxiety ds shows would be a key feature in getting help and I guess you have to prove that issues are having significant negative impact on your family life too.

I wonder what else might be the most pertinent points to emphasise...??

Sounds like a really good idea justabout, thanks.
The only problem is that we're going away on monday afternoon.
I guess I'll have to send them the info now and then go in to see them when we get back after easter.