Sorry, statementing again - confused re evidence

[moosemama]

Hi

Following on from finding out that ds's school has kept pretty much zero evidence of SEN support - even down to missing IEPs , the lovely ASD teacher and myself are currently trying to draw up a list of possible interventions and supports that the school have put in place, will have evidence of - somewhere - and we might be able to find if we and the new SENCO dig deep enough.

She explained to me that we need to prove:

a) evidence of support/intervention provided, with evidence that it has worked but is not sustainable within the school's SEN budget

b) evidence of support/intervention provided that hasn't worked, because more of the same or a slightly different approach requiring additional funding would be needed to get the desired results

c) evidence of ds's needs

The statement is going to be for social rather than academic/learning issues, as the feeling amongst all of the professionals involved with ds, is that we have plenty of evidence of his capability of being a high achiever, but that his lack of social skills and resultant anxiety have become a huge barrier to his achievement and progress. He has effectively stalled. As far as anyone can tell and based on his performance up until the summer term of year 2, he has no actual learning disabilities, his issues either relate to his social/communication skills, sensory issues or physical problems relating to his hypotonia.

I have twice raised my concerns about his achievement levels with his teachers, only to have them gloss over it. At the meeting with the ASD Inclusion lady on Monday, she said they are now saying he is currently working at level 3 in year 4. He was working at level 3 in year 2 ffs, yet every time I've suggested his progress had stalled I was stonewalled. Fundamentally, because he wasn't 'behind' for his age they didn't care that he had made no progress in two years and have fudged the assessments to cover it up. She also agreed with me that they can't back this up effectively, because essentially ds has no work to assess, due to his inability to start, let alone remain on task. He basically has exercise books full of blank pages - something else we have endlessly raised with his teachers both this year and last.

So they can't possibly know his current levels, because they have no work to assess and my feeling is that he has actually slipped back rather than just stalled - at least in literature and maths. We have gone from having a child at the top of every subject all through infants, who hit juniors, stopped progressing, then started to slide and not one of the teachers cared enough to raise it as a problem, let alone try and address it.

Anyway, sorry I've gone off on a bit of a rant. Back to my question:

Obviously what we want for him is as much 1-2-1 as we can get. He needs someone to meet and greet and run through the day with him in every morning and definitely someone 1-2-1 for literacy and mathematics and preferably for any other subjects involving a lot of written work.

So, does anyone know exactly what type of evidence are they going to be looking for to prove that he needs that 1-2-1?

Has anyone else successfully got a statement for their dc that was primarily social/communication based and if so, what evidence did you supply that you felt helped fight his corner?

Sorry, I'm being a bit vague here. Still trying to wrap my head around Monday's revelation and also ridiculously tired. Basically, any advice on this would be gratefully received. I feel a bit like I'm standing on a ledge and thrashing around in the dark at the moment.

Sorry, moosemama. (Long, have probably crossed with others) My DS got his statement at 5 so different story. This may only be slightly helpful.

The boy I support has very similar concerns to your DS, though, and got his statement at beg Y4. His reading skills are excellent, but his comprehension and inference etc much less. His maths is good if in a number sentence eg 15 / 6= 2 r3 ( sorry, phone hasn't got divide sign) but ask him how many egg boxes, which take 6 eggs, you'd need for 15 eggs he'd be stumped. So his learning in infants was fine, but in juniors when it all gets more wordy and comprehension gets more complex he has 'stalled.'

He has ASD and dyspraxia DX. He cannot start a piece if work, he cannot think of ideas and when helped to think of them, he cannot organise them. He stops at every sentence, waiting to be prompted.

His statement was based on social and ASD concerns, but he does need 1:1 to be able to access the curriculum. His application had support from junior school so only 6 month's worth at start of request and support from communication and interaction advisory teachers (equivalent of your ASD lady.) Pushy mum also. So it can be done.

Those empty exercise books are surely evidence. What about annual SATs type assessments? How are long and short writing assessments made if he can't get on with it without help/ prompting? What progress has he made in last 2 years. If he hasn't written enough there won't be enough to assess.
Again in maths, what assessments have they done. Most schools do a SATs style paper at the end of each year.

How does he cope with paired work or group work? That's a real problem for my charge. Does he participate at all or try to take over. How foes he cope in creative lessons, art and music, in abstract subjects like RE? How are motor skills, does this impact D & T, PE?

Maths and literacy are the most important subjects to be concentrating on. How does he cope when writing diaries, eg putting himself in others shoes and describing their emotions, moral dilemmas, persuasive writing, choosing emotive language, balanced reports, making sure both sides of an argument are represented.

In Maths, word problems, like above. Interpreting Venn diagrams, graphs.

Sorry, this feels like the bloody DLA form, concentrating on all the difficulties, but, unfortunately that's what's needed. You would have to ask his current teacher what she/he thinks your DS's abilities are in these areas. Can they show that he can cope with these more complex skills with the current level of support?

I'm sure between the ASD service, yourself, his teacher and a soon to be better SENCo you'll be able to find enough evidence.

my dd3 doesn't have the same needs as your ds but what we needed to get each bit of extra support was a report from a professional saying she needed it. So what you need is an ed psych report that says 'He needs someone to meet and greet and run through the day with him in every morning and definitely someone 1-2-1 for literacy and mathematics and preferably for any other subjects involving a lot of written work.' and whoever else you can get to say the same or similar, iyswim.

if it's any help, dd3s statement part 3 is lifted almost word for word from various reports from ed psych, salt, physio, sensory impairment service, drs and whoever else it was that we asked them to consult. The only bit that didn't get quoted was what I had written. I hope that makes some sense, I'm also in need of some sleep

moosemama, are any of the old teachers, TAs or dinner ladies still about? It might be worth seeing what they remember. You'll probably have some old link books and exercise books about too. EJs list is made of gold, I'm trying to save it for later!

The incident / accident book and medical room records will show all the head bumps and falls, and may demonstrate anxiety tummy aches etc. The reading scheme record and even school library lists might demonstrate failure to progress. Even the late and absence records will show which days he had to be picked up early, which days you couldn't get him there cos of panic etc.

moosemama, your son's profile is quite similar to mine, in terms of NC levels and lack of progress and social skills. A crucial difference was that DS's anxiety resulted in some quite severe meltdowns, which forced the school to admit he needed help. DS got a statement when he was in mainstream primary and got 26 hrs 1:1, then went to an independent AS school for secondary.

Even with DS's severe behavioural issues, we were still turned down for stat assessment when I first applied. Many parental requests are turned down, so don't be surprised if it happens in your case - many LAs only agree to assess when an appeal is lodged. Are you making a parental request for SA or is the school doing it?

We ended up getting an independent EP report to support our appeal, and then the LA backed down before the hearing. I would try to get as much evidence as you can from NHS/LA sources to begin with, but if you end up having to appeal you might want to think about getting an independent report.

Read IPSEA's refusal to assess pack. Use the information on pages 14-17 to think about what evidence you need. There are a couple of model letters for getting hold of your child's educational record (which is a legal right - don't let the school fob you off saying they don't have it) and about SEN funding at the school.

You can also use the data protection act to get records from any other organisations who holds records about your DS - eg GP, CAMHS, any hospitals.

Do you have any professionals onside who would be prepared to write a letter in support? Even something from a dinner lady or out of school club staff will be helpful to back up what you say, but obviously the higher up, the better.

So sorry I disappeared had to go to bed. Am not doing very well at the moment with my CFS/ME - am struggling to think and get words out - hence my crap and wordy post. Great timing with all this going on, but its par for the course for me really.

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. I am about to try and read through them all, but will have to do it in small bites or it just won't go in.

Ellen, that list is amazing - really helpful.

Your description of the boy you support could be describing ds.

As far as I can tell the only maths assessments he's actually completed are mental maths (which he is pretty much a natural at). I don't think he's got past the first question on any other maths assessments. Difficult to be sure though, as they are very cagey about this stuff with me.

I do know his literacy is similar, he told me that his teacher was upset with him because he only got the date down on his last written assessment and the second teacher he has (job share) has told me on more than one occasion how concerned she is about his empty exercise books.

Group work has been a problem all the way through, not sure where they will have this documented though - we have been told regularly at meetings - so only verbal.

Paired work isn't as bad, as long as he is allowed to work with his best friend - its not really possible if they want him to work with anyone else though.

I wrote to his teacher last term explaining that he struggled to do a piece of homework they'd set (it took him four nights at an hour a night - instead of the set half an hour and then he only got a few words down) because it involved abstract thinking, using a picture to work out what the wider story might be and an understanding of the characters emotions based on the storyline. Again I just got a verbal response, that basically said, "oh yes, we thought it might be a problem for him".

Basically we have lots of one-sided evidence, where I have written to the school, but there's no written response. They've never actually sent a written reply to even one of my letters over the whole five years he's been at the school!

Ninja, we already have several reports from the EPs, but they have closed his file now (until the next crisis ) and I can only re-involve them through the crisis team, so I'm not sure if I can ask them for help here. I was told by the assessent centre that the EP he saw (and was great) is the one that is usually heavily involved in the statementing process which is why they assumed he was already going through the SA process when he had his assessment.

We have a great GP on side, who was outraged at his levels of anxiety and the inaction of the school. Sh dx'd anxiety based reflux and migraines, but that was back in September and thanks to the great EP and now Inclusion support he's had it's greatly improved, in fact I can't remember when he last had a migraine. The feeling is, its having a trusted adult to talk to in school that has reduced his anxiety and so improved the symptoms and they want to argue that he needs more of the same to further reduce his anxiety levels in order to be able to access the curriculum.

maria no records have been kept of his bumps etc they always gloss over them. Last year he fell and hit the back his head on the corner of a metal bench foot without saving himself - he had a huge egg on the back of his head, was really spacey and told them he had a 'cracking pain' in his head - their response? "Go and sit on a bench for a few minutes".

They have also not kept records of his stomach pains etc and never call me to collect him as 'we don't want him thinking he can just go home if he says he's stressed or upset or if he says he has a tummy ache' This has led to him pretty much crying uncontrollably from 12.30 to 3.15 on at least two occasions in the last half term.

Sugarcandy He's never been excluded. Never even been in any real trouble, he saves his meltdowns for home, but does get extremely distressed at school on a regular basis - again - no record of this though. His anxiety tends to come out either as physical illness (stomach/reflux, migraine, diarrhoea) or distress and tears rather than meltdowns at school.

I think I will have to apply for a copy of his full records, as they obviously aren't being straight with me about what they do and don't have as well. How do I go about this? Is it a freedom of information request or something else I have to do?

The jury is still out on whether it will be us or the school that applies. Lots of people on here have told me its better for me to apply myself and the inclusion team have said they are happy to support me if that's what I decide.

I am going to sit and write myself a history of ds at that school from nursery right the way through and hope it will prompt my memory a bit. Not easy as my memory is a bit like swiss cheese anyway and even worse when I'm in CFS crisis. Unforutnately dh has decided to be as much use as a chocolate teapot in all of this and pile on the pressure by going for a job that will effectively leave me on my own with the dcs five days a week, so I'm pretty much on my own with all this at the moment.

It's a data protection request (FOI is for general information about budgets etc, DPA is for individual info) but it doesn't matter, they have to treat any written request the same regardless of which act you quote. There's a model letter in the IPSEA link.

I agree with the other advice you've received about applying for SA yourself. If the school are being unhelpful, it's likely that they'll sit on a request for months, if they apply at all. If you do it, you know it's been done and sending off the first letter triggers the statutory timeline. It takes six months at least to get a statement so the sooner you start, the better.

It sounds like your GP is helpful, the dx of reflux and migraines will be useful. If the school aren't making note of his anxiety incidents, I would consider taking him to the GP when they occur, so you can build up a record of evidence. Could you ask your GP to write a letter? Your own notes and records will help, but where LAs are concerned, they prefer evidence to come from professionals rather than parents.

The EP assessments should have been recorded in some way, even if they didn't produce a full report. They might not be held with the school records, so you'd have to do a DPA request direct to the LEA to access them.

Thank you sugarcandy. Am I right in thinking schools can sometimes take months to comply with this sort of request though?

Also, do you know if his records would include copies of his actual assessments - or just the results? We really need evidence that shows he hasn't completed the assessments and I think the only way to get this would be to request actual copies of the inidividual assessments themselves.

I have copies of all the EP observations and reports - they were very much on our/ds's side, as all the professionals have been once they see how badly the school has let him down. I've been very lucky with both them and the inclusion team as both teams email/ed me after every session with ds to keep me up to day and copy me in on any paperwork they send to the school.

I have to take him to the GP next week anyway, so I will try and get him in with the one that dx his anxiety related health issues and ask whether she would be willing write something to support the application.

Legally, the school has 15 school days to provide the educational record. In practice, you might have to remind them, but the law is on your side.

I think DS's records only contained results rather than assessment papers - schools generally don't have storage to hold all of the actual assessments. But you could try asking - make a specific mention of it in your request.

It sounds like the school is really failing him . Have you considered looking at other schools? Having a 1:1 will help, but it sounds like the whole culture of the school isn't helping your DS, and it could take months for a 1:1 to be put in place.

We have looked into other schools, but they are all massively oversubscribed round here - so without a statement .....

The other school locally are no better than this one either really - they are all highly competitive between each other, everything is results driven with little or no SEN awareness and/or support.

Also, despite all of this he actively doesn't want to change schools. He is lucky enough to have a fantastic best friend and a small but very supportive group of peers who have been with him since nursery. I honestly think if we did move him it would be detrimental to his mental health.

The school is improving and the improvements are gathering speed, but as I said to the inclusion teacher on Monday, its all too little too late for my ds. She told me that its thanks to my kicking butts and bringing in outside professionals myself for ds that a number (talking double figures here) of other children with ASD in the school have been indentified and are now being supported. Unfortunately this doesn't make me feel any better if, because of their historical cock-ups my ds can't access the support he needs now.

All staff in the school, including support staff are going through ASD awareness training in May and from there some peer awareness programmes are also going to be run. There is potential for the school to come out of this - in the long-term, as an excellent school to choose for a child who has ASD - again, sadly too late for my ds though.

Thanks for all your advice sugarcandy - I really appreciate it.