Wow - BABO and retained reflexes

[Ben10isthespawnofthedevil]

DS and I went to the Vision Therapy and Multi-sensory clinic at the Essex County Hospital (NHS) yesterday to see Dr Annette Groves who is on the BABO list. It was so so much more than I thought it would be!

Turns out DS has a v v strong Moro reflex (thanks Indigobell!) Reading up on it, it is very clear that he is strongly affected by this.

In addition, he requires glasses, he has problems with eye convergence, auditory memory, visual perception, listening skills and eye tracking. He also showed a preference for aqua overlays/ glasses but we are going to have to check these next time as he was struggling to concentrate after over an hour.

So we now in a week have got confirmation of dyspraxia, massive sensory issues, long sight, possible coloured overlays/glasses required, vision issues, listening/hearing issues and the retained Moro reflex.

No wonder the kid was struggling! Thanks again for all of the support x

Ben 10, sorry to add to your list. but if he has auditory memory problems he also needs to do Auditory Integration Training. (As well as vision therapy and retained reflexes )

Of all the things we've done for DD AIT has been the most successful.

For DS I would say Retained Reflex Therapy has been the most successful - but we did it after AIT, which was successful, so not sure if it would have been as successful if we hadn't done AIT first....

The good news is that most of what you listed will be cured once you've finally done vision therapy / retained reflexes therapy and auditory integration training.

You can't tell if you need coloured glasses till after you've done vision therapy....

Nooooooooooooo Indigo! You keep adding to my list!

I was reading about AIT this morning but it said that if you have the strong Moro then the AIT can be counter-productive .

We now have the following exercises: gross motor, fine motor, sensory integration, retained reflex, vision therapy, concentration, auditory memory and listening. I am seriously wondering how we are going to fit it all in after school as I normally work FT when I am not off sick so he is in afterschool club until 5.30pm.

DS did AIT before RRT and he had a strong Moro Reflex. The AIT really helped him. Before doing it he used to walk out of class 5 times a day, afterwards he stopped walking out of class.

I don't think all of that stuff after school is feasible, I think you are going to have to drop somethings.

AIT only takes 10 days, so that can be done any time - but I would do it as soon as you can.

I would do fine and gross motor skills every day.

Vision Therapy only took DD 5 weeks. So I would do that first, fix it, and then you can stop it.

Then I would do retained reflexes next. That takes about a year.

After doing that you might not need sensory integration anymore. But if you do still need it, do it then - after retained reflex therapy.

I wouldn't do auditory memory listening and concentration. They will be solved by doing all of the above therapies.

Indigo, please can you tell me what AIT you did? and vision therapy?

DD2 has had sensory diet since she was 11 months. She has had lots of Sensory integration therapy including Therapeutic Listening.

She has been doing retained reflexes since September (on your recommendation, thank you) and is doing very well with this. I wonder if your AIT and vision therapy could help iron out the last of her problems?

I did AIT at the Sound Learning Centre in London.

I did Vision Therapy at Blackstones in Beaconsfield...... (Not sure if the're any better than anyone else, they're just the closest to us)

Thanks, what is AIT?

can I ask - what/where is the BABO list?

is there a qualification to be on it, or can anyone apply? ie do I need ot be probing just how good they are goign to be at dealing with ASD dd1?

Ok, Babo list here and you have to be qualified to be on that list.

I didn't take DD to the assessment (DH did) - so I don't know if you need to be verbal to do it. I guess ring them to find out....

AIT is Auditory Integration Training. Hardly anybody does it besides Sound Learning Centre

It is similar to Therapeutic Listening but different in that AIT is based on an Audiogram done from your child and the music you listen to (for 10 days) is specifically created for your child. Therefore it get's much much better resutls.... (From what I can tell.)

Both DS and DD have done AIT. I have the before and after audiograms for both of them. And in both cases the results have been truly amazing. They have both gone from having a spikey 'mountain range' type audiogram, with significant hypersenstive hearing, to having almost perfect hearing.

(I'll try and post them on my website tonight...)

Thanks, Indigo. There is one listed in my town, so will try ot give them a ring when we get back form holiday.

I have always wondered re: how useful it would be if dd1 jsut starts messig around (likely) and deliberately giving the worng answer (also likely). couple that with the likelihood of her not understanding half of it due to severe langugae delays, and I end up putting back onto the back burner while I ponder (and my brain explodes )

must get around to talking to them.

Is It Dyslexia is my website so far. Talks about what I have found worked for DD.

And although I title it about dyslexia, almost all of it applies equally to ASD (ie almost all of it also applies to DS)

A lot of therapies (like Sound Learning Centre, and Dore) claim to cure ASD / ADH / Dyspraxia and Dyslexia, and now I can see why. I am absolutely convinced that they are all caused by the same underlying problems ( which are hearing and retained reflexes based)

However - I am talking about the type of ASD my son has. Which is the only one I have tried to cure.....

(Any and all feedback about my site is welcome. Privately if you prefer. It's still a work in progress.... There is no point to the website, I just got sick of saying the same things over and over again on MN )

If you are in the south east and want to see a BABO, Dr Annette Grounds on the list is NHS so free!

Unfortunately you're looking at another £1200 :(

(Although only £400 for the assessment. Once you've done the assessment and see the audiogram it is much easier to spend the £800 on the therapy. And conversely if your child does not have hearing problems, the audiogram will show no problems, and you will know you don't need to do AIT.)

(to other people considering vision therapy) I only paid £250 for vision therapy - and it only lasted 5 weeks, maybe DDs vision wasn't as bad as your DCs......

Maybe you could do it next year or the year after.....

I have always refused to pay for a private EP report. All the LEA ones my DC have had have been absolutely useless..... EPs know nothing about vision and hearing and retained reflexes and ......

Hi Ben10

What a week! It must be such a relief to have confirmation of your DS's issues. The Clinic at Essex Hospital sounds great - do you know if they take private referrals? We don't live in the area so I doubt Paed would refer.

I disagree slightly with Indigo in that I would recommend Retained Reflexes before Vision Therapy.

Retained reflexes www.centeredge.com/ArticPDF/Retained.pdf have an impact on how the child develops and learns, including their visual development. I believe you need to reduce/correct/alleviate the symptoms caused by the retained reflexes prior to doing VT. Otherwise you are trying to retrain the visual system with the retained reflexes still in place, this could lead to VT not being as beneficial as it could be if the effects of retained reflexes are first reduced.

DS required four or five, 6 week sessions of Reflex Therapy, followed by 4 years of VT (not continuous).

If things are still the same VT is not recommended prior to the age of seven, due to natural eye development. Reflex Therapy can be started with younger children.

Silverfrog - a good therapist will advise you as to whether RT/VT would be beneficial, if they could adapt exercises etc.

Eveiebaby

If you call the number on the BABO for Dr Grounds and leave a message, they will call you back within a couple of hours. They will send you out a pack which you can take to your normal GP who can make a referral for you through the Choose and Book system. We are in Medway so 1 1/2 hrs away and there is no problem with that at all.

Minx/Indigo

The exercises that we have to start with on the retained reflexes are quite easy to start with like putting a bean bag on your head and then putting your head forward or back and attempting to catch the bean bag. The catching is not really the point, it is the head motions that are. They said that I should see whether I can get the school to do the Vision Therapy exercises each day for no more than 10 minutes. He has to do vision therapy like lazy eights whilst tracking a pencil, using his peripheral vision to touch my moving hands while focusing on my nose, being able to touch a sticker on a ball that you swing/spin from a thread.

We will not be able to afford the SLC unfortunately, even just the initial assessment at £400. The private OT was funded by a benevolent fund grant as will hopefully the treatments.

I am so relieved to have confirmation that I am not being a "munchausens by proxy" mother. I embarrassed myself yesterday at school. I asked for a meeting with the Pupil and Family Support Worker. I was in tears for quite a lot of the time when I was telling her how the teachers had decided what was wrong with DS and refused to accept the other issues apart from handwriting and being able to sit still. She agreed that his behaviour and rewards should be based on what is good for DS rather than what the other children do. She didn't even know who he was which I was very surprised about as apparently she is meant to be referred to by the teacher when there is a problem with behaviour or social skills. Given that the teacher was so positive that a lot of the behaviours were intentional and would not accept that perhaps he couldn't help it and as he has noone to play with in the playground, I am shocked that he wasn't referred to her.

I made my feelings very clear regarding the SENCO and teacher! He will now be discussed at the Pastoral Care Team meeting and the In School Review with the EP. Just getting professional confirmation of his issues has opened so many doors it seems! Even Riding for the Disabled at only £7 per session

Minx is probably right. Retained Reflex Therapy has been far far more useful than vision therapy.

What was actually amazing was that Vision Therapy cured DDs vision problems - and yet didn't actually improve her learning difficulties at all (Whereas AIT did cure her learning difficulties).

Ben10 - The Cauldwell Charity provide funding for AIT at the Sound Learning Centre. I've no idea how hard it is to get, but you might as well ring and find out.....

Getting his name onto the school review list with the EP is a big achievement. It means he is on their radar - and it is the first step to more help.

Do ask school to do the vision exercises with him. The only problem with that is you never really know whether they were done, and whether they were done properly. But school can find 10 mins to do it with him, and it is reasonable to expect them to.

You are doing everything you can for him. And it will all help and come together. Just don't burn yourself out in the mean time....

Thanks. The support really means alot

Maybe I should start another thread on this - but what are retained reflexes and how does RR therapy help? Is it likely that my Ds with CP would have them?

Sorry for the very basic question - I have previously googled but thought I would ask the experts!

A baby is born with all sorts of reflexes, like the Moro reflex, and the rooting reflex and a grasping reflex. In the first few years these are meant to disappear and you are meant to get Adult postural reflexes.

Retaining them causes all sorts of problems. For example retaining the Moro reflex makes your DC very very anxious. (eg every loud noise floods them with adrenalin when it shouldn't.)

RRT claims to improve an enormous range of problems like ASD / ADHD / Dyspraxia and Dyslexia. And my experience of 2 kids is that it more or less delivered the miracles it promised.... (See some of my other threads on the topic)

I don't know anything about CP, but I guess it's very likely your DS has them. Fairly hard to find out (unless they're really obvious), although an OT can probably tell you.

Read more about it here ( It can be also called Neuro Development Program rather than retained reflex therapy)

I haven't read the book on it, but the book is Attention, Balance & Co-ordination.

Thanks for explaining how the referral works BEN10

Is there an age which children need to be to do retained reflex or visual therapy? I suspect my son may have issues with retianed reflexes but he's only 3 (well 4 next month) and I don't want to start something that may be of no benefit to him yet as he wont comply etc so just wondered what age your children where when doing this.
Thanks

I think they have to be at least 4, not 100% sure though.

DS is 5 but I'm not sure what age you have to be.