Has anyone else got a dc that wont/can't talk (make convo) but can read out loud?

[Marne]

Dd2 (HFA and severe language delay) is in reception, a year ago she was non-verbal, we have never tried to teach her phonics or to read (as we thought it was not possible as she was almost non-verbal), she never makes covosation and will often only talk when she wants something using 1-2 words (eg, biscuit please).

Last week was dd2's parents evening and the school were shocked by dd2's ability to read, apparently she has taught herself to read and has skipped out the 'sounding words out and phonic' stage and can now read most words. The school are now confussed about dd's abilities as she rarely speeks at school, hardly links words together but can read a book out loud, they seem to think that dd2 is being a little monkey and choosing not to talk.

Has anyone got a dc who does this and how do the school deal with it?

might not be relevant.. but I know they were talking about using 'whole word recognision' with ds (it's apparently used with kids with downs?) rather than phonics because of the lack of speech, so it sounds like this is what she has done for herslef.. that sounds amazing doesn't it.

does she link the word she is reading with the meaning?

Yes DS does this. Many children with asd can read before they talk. DS started to read at 2 he used to be able to write all his letters too but he lost that when he regressed although he still knows how. In a way it makes sense as it has the visual element and the word is always spelt the same. Some adults remain non verbal and then write a novel. It used to be assumed non verbal meant low intelligence but it doesn't always. DS finds spoken language really confusing but he loves words. I know a child who read at 3 but did not speak until 4. Reading can be a code or a rote learning thing. DS can rote learn easily but that does mean he understands the meaning. I mean he does for nouns as he matches the word to the picture and I guess filed away he has the connection between the two. If you have flashcards and cover the picture bet she can read the words. I think DS sort of files a photograph of the picture and word away and then recalls it. Often when they get older it turns out they know the words but don't get the story. It can mean it's easier for them to rote learn words than learn phonics. The first word DS wrote was vtech at age 2 he loves all those alphabet machine toys. He likes the pattern and sameness of written words. I think might have been donna Williams who said spoken language was just a swirl of sounds that made no sense at 4. You can use the ability to rote learn the word as a visual prompt eg use pictures with the word as well and then just the word. You can teach language using word prompts eg we used written prompts to teach big and small and that made it much easier for DS than just saying the word. You can expand sentences eg I want book can easily become I want red book or I want blue book by using sentence prompts. It should help her figure out the rules of spoken language and decode it. DS will go into reception with above age reading and 2 year old spoken language.

Forgot to say DS just uses spoken language for requesting. Very occasionally he will comment. But he does not use language socially hence he does not see the point of conversation for it's own sake. I think of this as his social deficit rather than a language issue. I mean he has language issues too. So while DS makes requests he doesnt check he has our attention. He puts words out there and sees what sticks he has not really fully made the connection that he needs to ensure his message is received that there is a person at .the other end

She's always loved letters, at the age of 18 months she managed to arrange her magnettic letters in order of the alphabet, at the age of 2 she started spelling small words with them and remembering license plate numbers and logo's.

Her understanding is not great but when she reads it sounds as though she understands what she's reading (maybe its just verbal instructions and convosation that she can't understand?)

I find my dd's so interesting (both ASD), dd1 was reading at the age of 2, she's now 7 and reading at the level of a 9-10 year old (same with maths) and has a great memory, she knows all the flags of the world (i don't know half of them). I think dd2 is a lot brighter then she seems, she only talks when she has too and loves reading books, hopfully she can use it to her advantage as she seems to learn more from books and pictures rather then me explaining something to her verbaly.

My ds used to read before he could talk. He could read at two although I didn't know until he spelt out Oracle with his magnetic letters (teletext service)
When he started nursery at four he had hardly any words other than numbers but he would read out loud anything he could get his hands on.
Ds was diagnosed with hyperlexia at five but like most things once he had mastered a skill he got bored and stopped reading.
Nowadays he only reads when he has to and never reads for pleasure.

Google hyperlexia. (like the opposite of dyslexia) It's very ASD. Reading without necessarily understanding the story. My DS3 who isn't DX but is definately there could read at 3 and I'd not taught him anything beyond letter sounds and read him lots of books. He just seemed to have taught himself whole words. He still can't read phonically.

I had never heard of Hyperlexia, just googled it and it sounds just like dd2 (and maybe dd1).

The DC I support can read beautifully, really expressive. You'd think he must understand as all the inflexions are in the right place. But ask him comprehension questions and he can't answer any beyond the concrete. He has ASD and dyspraxia DX but I'm sue he's hyperlexic as well. He's Y5 with great spelling and age appropriate reading level.

Yes she sounds similar to my DS we have pictures of him with the alphabet in a long line from very young.
I dont really know how many of the words DS actually understands - I think quite a few he has hundreds of nouns - he knew several types of dinosaur at 2. its the abstract stuff he struggles with. All the surplus meaningless words we use in English that throw him and the fact we say the same thing 100 different ways. I am sure other languages where they just have one word for each object would be much easier.
He has a lovely habit of saying byebye when he doesn't want to do something so we have 'byebye change my nappy'. We just taught negatives with two Mr Potato Heads eg give me eyes / no eyes - he thought that was hilarious and kept saying 'give me no eyes' and giggling hysterically.
DS rote learns entire books he learnt the whole of we're going on a bear hunt this week. We found a lovely version on youtube with the original pictures and he plays it and sits and turns the page at the right time. But then it turns into a stim and he does it over and over until he knows it perfectly.
You can see how written words which are constant or books which read the same every time make much more logical sense to them than these silly neurotypical people who all ask the same thing in different ways and in different accents.
It is fascinating. I think my other kids skipped through language development so fast you don't notice and now its like getting to watch it in (very) slow motion.
There is a website Downs Syndrome Education International which has lots of free reading materials on it I think its called 'see and learn' and you can download them for free.
We do ABA and a really good thing they do is count how many words he uses spontaneously in 10 mins play with his 1:1 and then we track that over time to check its increasing. We started at zero or 1 single words in 10 mins and are now up to about 40 phrases. That would be good for school as its a very easy way of making sure that they are spending time to really tempt language out of her and also to measure its working. I think just doing the exercise will make them more conscious of the need to get the words out of her throughout the rest of the day as well. And show its not that easy and its not her being a monkey.
The social side of language is harder to crack. My DS labels his brothers in a picture but never addresses them in real life.
We have got hello and goodbye quite often spontaneously now but only after 18 months of prompting it.
The school should be able to up the number of requests just by tempting her with things she wants but most likely using language for commenting or social reasons they will have to first teach the expectation thats what you use language for.
Even adults with autism think we're mad eg why do two people discuss the weather when they are stood outside and both already know what the weather is. How mad is that to tell someone something they already know.

Dd1 learned to read the names of the children in her group at day nursery when she was just over 2. I think she learnt to recognise them off the coat pegs. Amazing isn't it.

She went on to be an excellent reader although she struggled with meaning and rarely self corrected until she was about 10.

Dd3 taught herself to read too I am not really sure how old she was she just suddenly started reading words.

They were both whole word readers and went on to be excelllent spellers.

Oh but be careful, Dd1 can also remember 16 digit credit card numbers after typing them once! .

Thanks Agnes, we have not tried ABA with her although the sn nursery used some ABA techniques. She will answer questions with just 'yes' or 'no' and when given a choice of 2 things will always say the first choice (one that was said first), if i ask her 'who did you play with today' she just picks a random name from her class and when i ask 'what did you do today?' she always says 'puzzles' (i ask her every day) if i really push her i can get a bit more (what kind of puzzle? or what colour? ect..). The school are trying to teach her to say 'today it is raining, sunny ect... (weather) and 'I like...', 'I don't like'. Sometimes she will come out with a long sentance (out of the blue) such as 'i don't want to go to school' followed by 'i want to go to toys r us', so she can get her point across when she really wants to.

Ds can memorise anything, he's an unbeatable card player because he memorises what's been put down and what everybody picks up.He got us thrown out of the amusement arcade because he memorised the racing horses slot machine and only put two pence in each time the white horse won earning him thirty pence a time Wonder if I could get him into a casino

Do you think i should mention 'hyperlexia' to the school? maybe they could do some research and find out the best way to teach/help her, i'm worried that the school wont give her the correct work or use dd2's skills to her advantage.

Maybe, they probably won't have heard of it though. Hopefully someone will research it, but if you explain it they will at least understand her profile a bit better. She is likely to continue to have better reading skills than comprehension skills and it is really easy for schools to assume that good reading means good comprehension, and miss the fact that she might need help.

I would say that they need to know so they don't overestimate her ability.

But it is a great ability to have and will make learning easier for her, once she gets to the 'reading to learn' stage after the 'learning to read' stage.

Thanks Ellen, she has a great 1:1, at the moment the school are still learning about ASD, her SENCO doesn't seem to have a clue, maybe i can print some info from the web and wave it infront of her .

It really made little difference to how ds was taught tbh but probably made it official that his reading ability wasn't matched with his comprehension ability. But having said that as he was pretty much non verbal the rest of the time nobody thought for a minute that it would be tbh.
Ds likes to acquire a skill once that skill has been acquired he stops bothering with it so once he got to seven or so his interest in reading went. He still had the ability to read like an adult as he always had had but he wasn't motivated to read to learn. For ds the ability to be able to read any word was enough for him he was never interested in the meaning or the content.
He then moved on to spelling any word in long lists an interest that prevails to this day although the lists are normally statistics of some kind usually linked to his interests.

Marne her understanding sounds much further ahead than my DS - he could not answer a question about what he did that day. That seems very positive.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting you do ABA just that getting the school to count words during 10 mins play and chart it over the weeks might just be something which it would be easy for them to measure but also encourage the school to try and up the number over time. Schools tend not to be good at measuring outcomes and its a really easy thing to do.

Thanks Agne and asdx2, her understanding has improved but its still way behind . Tonight she read a whole book with really long words, she didn't struggle at all with reading it but i don't think she understands the meaning of the words, she has also been reading number today up to 999 (can't do 1000+). She manages to navigate her way around Amazon,google, e-bay, you-tube and moshi monsters on the pc with no help at all (so will type what she wants into the search bar and follow instructions on the screen). She amazes me every day and people that come to the house are really shocked by her reading, writting and pc skills.