PROPOSED STATEMENT ASD 3.4 Year old

[mompa]

Hi I hope someone can help. I am due to receive the proposed statement from LEA. My little boy currently attends specilaist ASD nursery. At age 3 what is the maximum number of hours I can ask for to be funded at this nursery? Does anyone have full time nursery specialist funding?I would like him to attend full time.
He currently gets 15 hours one to one at mainstream nursery but this is not helpin him at all and they are not paying for specialist nursery we are and can't afford to any more. Do I name the specialist nursery I want on statement and then can this be cchanged next year when he is school age for the special school I think he should go to? Hope someone can help with these questions

i didnt know the Dx when my son was at nursery so im sure someone will be along soon to answer you , but im awaiting the final part of the stement now when we got the draft we had to send it back and put in part four the school we want DS to go to , does he do 15 hours a week and your paying for 15 hrs 1-1 ? was that how many hours the ed psy or someone suggested DS needs? as if he does 15 hrs and you were told he needs 15 hrs 1-1 its not out of the question to ask for say he does 9 to 3 pm as my son does and ask for a TA 1-1 which would probably be as my son will get 25hrs in MS or hopefully (as hes discribed as moderate ASD)a full time SS , in meantime i was advised (she went with me also) to visit schools with units AND SS which i did HTH

oops meant to say PP went with me sorry ive my son in a mood and cooking tea at same time doh!!

Children are only funded by the government for 15 hours a week, so the school are only really meant to give 15 hours. If he is already getting 15 hours in one nursery, he can't get 15 hours elsewhere. I would name the specialist nursery.

My DS2 went to a nursery that was attached to a specialist ASD school. He was only allowed there for the 12.5 hours (which it was back then).
He progressed really well while there, and got a lot of help.

He is now in MS school though with a full time 1:1, which is 30 hours and includes dinner and break times. 30 hours is the max they can give you.

Same in a special school. Pre reception age places are part time only. I'd get the special nursery named. See how he gets on there. Hopefully he'll make lots of progress and you can decide on MS or SS (if you get any choice) for school age.

that seems to depend on area as ive been told by LA here and PP that 25 is the most my DS can get but having said that he will be going to SS so that covers the breaktimes & lunchtime funny you should mention the breaks and lunch as my DH noticed that straight away on our draft , what needs 1-1 all day but not at break/lunchtimes thats the time he usually has the most problems unstructured times

There are three issues here.

One is what is the amount of hours available under a free nursery placement - which is 15, termtime only.

Two - is do you need additional childcare over and above the 15 hours if so then the LA may have a scheme to fund 1:1 on the same basis as the first 15 hours eg my LA offer up to 30 hours termtime only with max. of 75% 1:1 (this was without a statement). LAs have a duty under the Childcare Act to provide sufficient childcare for disabled children, but few do. As you can see even my LA scheme does not cover holidays.

Three is how much education is your child entitled to. As a child with SEN this is based on need not on nursery hours. We get (won at tribunal) 35 hours a week specialist (ABA) teaching 48 weeks per year and my son got this at 3.10 (after 18 months of arguing with LA). If your child's SEN cannot be met within 15 hours then you are entitled to more. For eg had my child been offered a place at the nursery attached to the special school (we were refused) then their standard nursery placement is 3 full day ie 19 hours a week.

People assume that special educational provision has to be limited to the free nursery place, but it doesn't it should be dependent on what your child needs. In our case my son would never have been able to cover everything he had to learn at the pace he learns in 15 hours a week termtime only.

So you should name the specialist nursery and the amount of hours you think he needs to go and negotiate from there.

There is no actual evidence which says 15 hours is the right amount. In USA the guidance is minimum of 25 hours specialist teaching per week topped up by parents. SEN officers have jumped on the free nursery places and call this special educational provision because its convenient but in many cases mainstream nursery places are not education, they are just glorified childcare. If your child, as mine, needs daily specialised teaching of more than 15 hours then this is what should be on the statement.

However you may have to get an indep ed psych to say that if they don't agree and you end up at tribunal

That's what's so great about this board. Things can vary so much from LA to LA and sometimes what you think is universal actually isn't.

Thanks so much for all replies. I will name specialist nursery and aim for 25 hours. He really needs this since I don't believe he is learning anything at mainstream and I don't believe he is really getting the one to one they they are receiving fudning for. LEA are talking about placement in september (probably not his current private one)- is there anyting I can do to speed things up - we want to halp him now not in 6months time and we would like him to stay where he is. Also should I ensure statement states number of hours?

There is not much you can do to speed it up except drafting your appeal now, getting all your evidence together now so its ready to go and responding quickly at each stage. Once you appeal you can make a request to the tribunal that they expedite the hearing and shorten the timetable - we did this for the same reasons eg need to start in Sept, being failed in mainstream, not being able to fund private provision any longer, and wanting early intervention. The Tribunal can shorten the 6 month timetable to 3 months. But make sure you can meet this eg with evidence, reports etc. Are you able to afford an indep EP report to see in both settings? You really need a professional to say 25 hours. Tribunals will listen to the specialist nursery if they say 25 but would prefer an independent impartial witness to say it. You should not need to spend money on reports etc but unfortunately it can make a big difference.

One thing I did as we were in similar position (ABA at home where good progress and mainstream nursery where no progress) was to set different targets in each setting and then collect data we were meeting ours and nursery were not. I insisted nursery make some very specific targets (I gave them a choice what they were but made them very clear and time limited), I knew they would not be able to meet them. So for eg the SALT asked them to teach some specific words / concepts and I got it on the IEP so it said within 3 months X will be able to use (words). Then when they did not teach them I was able to say to the tribunal SALT and mainstream nursery have been trying to teach this specific language for 8 months with no success. Also I asked them to teach him one play skill - any skill eg ride a trike, make a sandcastle and put it in the IEP within 3 months X will be able to ....., of course they didn't. So instead of them being able to say we will help develop X's play skills they had to actually achieve a new specific skill.

If you get SMART targets and not the usual woolly ones you can then clearly demonstrate that mainstream staff are not achieving progress. Of course you need the specialist nursery to set different targets eg different language / play skill and then be able to show the difference.

Do the mainstream nursery say they can meet need? Our nursery were happy to say they could not - that he was beyond their capabilities and he needed the specialist input, and again that really helped.

Thanks so much for your advise Agnes. Mainstream admit DS needs specialist help and that he requres one to one especially for safety. I think Specialist would back full time - they have already reserved an additional 2 sessions a week. Targets I am battling with mainstram since they are setting easily achievable ones such as eye contact for 2 seconds (this was a target at a different nursery a year ago) they just let him run riot and don't give any structured support at all. I do need him to be at nursery since I work.They also don't complete the home school book. Will talk to them re SMART targets.Will look into private EP. Could I go down another route and agrgeet o 15 hours from Sep but at review in 6months up this to 25 to ensure that by september he has at least some funded? Statement not due to be finanised until June. I have a team around child meeting in few weeks will bring it up then along with fact that we have recieved NO NHS community SALT so no-one advsising mainstrem nursery.
Is your DS at school now? Is it ABA one? We have seen a TEACH based Special school that looks good but the ABA ones I looked at didn't seem right for my DSthough I think a home ABA programme would work - just can't afford it.Thanks so much and sorry for all the questions

Just to answer your earlier question, the statement should specify and quantify the support, in terms of who, how and for how long. Lots of LAs try to get round this requirement, tho', so quote SEN CoP section 8:37 if you get any problems.

SEN Code of Practice

Government policy is changing as a green paper was made public last week, but does not become law for at least 2 years. So this still applies.

Sorry, that's just a summary page. The actual Code of Practice is
here.

Really having problems with this.

Trying another link to a page that has it's own link.

www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=3724

Thanks EllenJane - will refer to that when the proposed statement arrives. I have just been told that they will not consider his current (private placement)unless there are no places in maintained provision which is further away and noplaces until September so I quoted Sen code 4.45 and will wait to see what happens. I cannot belive how LEA delay everything. All reports state ASD specific - do they think it is ok for him to wait this long. Very fed up.