SEN green paper available tomorrow

[mullymummy]

Hi all, a colleague has just informed me that Sarah Teather will be launching the Green Paper tomorrow morning at 9.30am. Apparently it should be on the DfE website then...

Very anxious about this! Really want to know what they are proposing.

BBC article on it

I fear it will be pushed into the background by this in a cover-up kind of way.

Did anyone hear the Today programme earlier ,I was incensed when they kept talking about teaching these children at the "lower end",this just perpetuates the whole idea that just because you have SEN you are dim.Maybe it was because I wS half asleep but I was incensed

oh shit, this isn't good is it! Statements are going and presumably the legal protection that they bring with them. Watching Sarah Teather this morning she was talking about about one joint health and education assessment, can see them lumping dla into that one quite quickly. How the hell is that supposed to work for dc with many different issues, dd3 is under about 5 different consultants, none of whom have the faintest idea of how education works, and her teachers have no idea of the medical side?! Sounds like the assessors they're bringing in for the pip will have another job

on the up side better training for teachers at the uni stage has to be good, dd1 has had 1 lecture in her first year on sen and that's fairly much it unless she specialises. On the other hand she's had 4 lectures on teaching english as an additional language, if they could have the same for sen at least that would have to be an improvement.

Lets be positive and think that this will help all our kids with SEN. We can only hope.

"Lets be positive and think that this will help all our kids with SEN. We can only hope."

You think?

It's not going to help. It's going to be to save money.

Yes maybe you are right, i have just listned to the child minister on bbc, it seems she wants to take away the need for various assessments, this in its self is a worry as these are proffesional people doing a really good job, the problems come when the local lea dont listen or act on their recomendations. we as parents do know our children best, but we still need the assessments to determine the education and health needs of our children.

Assessments are critical - you have to determine the problem before you can begin to address it. This is a universal base requirement.

Does anyone else feel a whole generation of children is in grave danger of shoved on the scrap heap before they've even reached what would be statutory school age in many countries?

SEN covers so many things from needing specs for weak eyesight to ABA. Access to accurate timely assessment is critical for ALL children, and I would have hoped, would be a key priority. Otherwise we as a country have to clearly state we have removed the automatic right to even an elementary education from our youngest generation.

The potential cost to this country of kicking the can down the road in terms of adult residential care, crime and prison statistics if too many children are left without access to the curriculum is phenomenal.

feeling worried about this. They are criticising the issue that kids with family difficulties are being given SEN label which is obviously not right but how can they then cut assessments and expect to get a better handle on things. Apparently want us parents to set up SEN free schools. Anyone got time?

www.education.gov.uk/publications/standard/publicationDetail/Page1/CM%208027

Seems to me they're just adding another layer of bureaucracy which will be paid for out of the pot of money available to children like mine and children like mine will get even less help while the professionals give themselves even bigger pats on the back for what a good job they're (not) doing. Expect they'll also use this a s acover for reducing that pot of money. (System has made me cynical.)
No idea how this affects ds's hard-fought-for statement. Expect it'll cease to have a legal effect and we'll be back to square one with ds receiving nothing and being passed from pillar to post again. Only with no real help he'll never achieve anything. He is completely dependent on adults for everything. Then how much will that cost when he's an adult?
One fight after another when you have a SN child. Was looking forward to not feeling quite so stressed by the system for a little while.

'Autism, or an autistic spectrum
disorder, for example, covers a broad spectrum: children with autism may require
support with communication, social understanding and thinking and behaving
flexibly, and may, to a greater or lesser extent, require support to carry out basic tasks such as eating, drinking, washing, dressing and going to the toilet. '

glad this bit about self care is in

I've only just started reading and already I'm concerned about this statement:

'Parents of children with statements of SEN will be able to express a preference for any state-funded school ? including special schools, Academies and Free Schools ? and have their preference met unless it would not meet the needs of the child, be incompatible with the efficient education of other children, or be an inefficient use of resources.'

Our local Secondary, which is the one that ordinarily ds1 would be attending, became an Academy at the beginning of this academic year. They have already amended their admissions policy to state that they only will accept pupils who will not affect the education of other pupils. They also state in their prospectus:

• All pupils have the right to learn and achieve uninterrupted by others

and

• All members of our community will co-operate with others and will be polite, considerate and honest

Which is fairly standard stuff, except when you consider that this has been put in since they became an academy and seems to be the ideal get-out for them if a child perhaps with AS or ASD applies to the school. If an Academy doesn't want to take a child who has them named in his/her statement, they have to write to the Minister for Education explaining why they can't make reasonable adjustments to accommodate the child's needs or why they believe the child would be incompatible with their school.

Its already well knows that the Head is not keen to take on SN pupils and obviously, now they are in charge of their own funds, they are going to be even less keen to spend some of them on pupils with additional needs.

Am really hoping I'm going to read something more positive later on about this, but realistically - I think not.

Not quite sure I like this comment:

"Today?s system ..........blah blah blah.............. does
not make the best use of the expertise in the voluntary and community sector. "

Wonder where they're going with the that? I have dreadful visions of them having 1:1s and such being voluntary positions, like they've planned for librarians and such. I hope I've completely misread their intent.

I have to admit, I hate reading these. They are always "too many words, not enough said" if that makes sense. It's nasty little surprises hidden in formal jargon. It's vague so they can keep it open for their own interpretation. and it's annoying....

DS2's paperwork for his (potential) statement has just been turned in and we are awaiting decision. I hope this doesn't affect it, as it seems this other programme won't really be rolled out until 2013.

"we will test how to reform radically the statutory SEN assessment and
statement. Local assessment and plan pathfinders will explore the best
replacement, including whether the voluntary and community sector could
coordinate assessment and bring greater independence to the process"

There it is again.... voluntary and community sector... hmmm

just found out that a hard copy of the consultation is £28.50 wtf
I know I can download for free but can't print off as don't have that level of resource and can't really highlight, bookmark and flick back through a screen.
I could scream at how this bastard government include exclude parents of modest income from this process

I do see that they are adding a large number (additional 4200) HVs to the system by 2015, in an effort to spot children with SNs earlier, such as at a 2yr assessment. I would have thought simply retraining some of the GPs and HVs that are currently in the system would be a massive change for the better. We spoke to no less than FOUR different GPs at our surgery about our concerns regarding DS2's development, and we were basically told in various condescending manners that all children develop at different speeds, he's fine, and boys develop slower than girls. Now, of course, we're being asked why we didn't raise concerns earlier.

my ds goes to SS but their is a ms secondary near by they are in process of becoming an accademy and at same time( as they are next to the ASD SS ) having a ASD unit incorporated in the school so i wonder going by what moosemama said that will work out as i can see later DS maybe needing to accress MS for certain lessons if he does improve enough now hes getting specialist help, and i think the experts in the voluntary things a ref to Camerons BIG SOCIETY means gettin unprofeshional (whats new lol) outside help thats FREE more penny pinching basically what else does voluntary and community sector mean but cheap

Triggles, my ds1 was never seen by an HV after the age of 18 months Despite him being my first born we had the letters sent to us that said call if you have any concerns. Well at the time we didn't, he was our first born and we didn't know his behaviour wasn't normal for a two/three/four year old. Its wasn't until he started at ms nursery that we realised how different he actually was.

Same story with ds2, in fact I don't the HV ever saw him after the initial postnatal period.

Then when dd was born two years ago, she had a fantastic HV, who was aware of ds1 being assessed and made a point of keeping in regular contact and supporting us. Then they rezoned the HV services (that was last August) and the new HV has so far failed to make any contact at all. They've completely missed her two year check - no letter, nothing. In fact I don't even know who they are or how to contact them!

As you said, more training of the current HVs would be a huge step forward - judging by my experience.

moosemama I know a number of people that have never seen their HV, other than immediately after childbirth, and even that was fleeting. While I understand there may not be enough to cover all the duties, I still think quite a few could use some retraining.

I'm wondering how just the one assessment will work - will it be a committee of multi agency professionals each making their own recommendations or just one bod who is supposed to know about all the different things that can affect a child's ability to access what is going on within a school environment.

I fear the latter will prevail as a cost cutting measure and many children will consequently suffer a disservice. Am awaiting the green paper rather anxioulsy

Parents of children with statements of SEN will be able to express a preference for any state-funded school ? including special schools, Academies and Free Schools ? and have their preference met unless it would not meet the needs of the child, be incompatible with the efficient education of other children, or be an inefficient use of resources.

Moosemama, that's pretty much what it said before, but I don't like this bit from your school.

All members of our community will co-operate with others and will be polite, considerate and honest.

That's a nice 'want' but it can't be enforced without excluding half the children, surely..

Thanks for the link ohmeohmy. I'll be ploughing through it later.

link here to further links to access the green paper but also where you can respond to the document too. There are four months for points of view to be submitted. Great to discuss it here - I know I learn a lot from others, but please also make sure you feed these opinions back to the process so that concerns can be highlighted before any of this actually moves to becoming law. You never know, if enough people say the same thing they may just listen perhaps????? Certainly I am concerned to know that there will be some legal protection here in the way that statements have - though I haven't read the whole document yet, just summaries so far.