"normal" bad behaviour or something else? completely lost at what to do, and could do with any advice going really

[mayjay35]

I'm new here and need some help. son is 6. hes never been a typical boy hes very quiet and will sit and draw for hours and never shown much interest in toys. He does like riding his bike and being outdoors but hates sports like football. Hes in year 1 and doesnt really have many friends. he has a few but always comes home angry and upset because no one would play with him. It isnt that the children wont play with him but they wont play HIS games HIS way! he can not loose at anything and goes into complete meltdown. If his drawing goes wrong he will too, it will get screwed up and he will get very cross and cry like its the end of the world. He doesnt do change at all, last week his car seat was put into the other side of the car and he got hysterical about it being in the wrong place. he doesnt like new people, he had a different teacher at school one day recently, refused to join in and was quite rude. he gets very upset about new clothes/shoes/haircuts. He is so quiet and polite one minute then from nowhere gets really angry outbursts, screaming shouting breaking things, all for the tiniest little things. If something isnt what he expects he goes into melt down again, if he runs out of the cereal he was planning to have, or I say we are going somewhere and the plans change (even if it changes for the better) or if someone he's not expecting picks him up from school. I dont know what to do anymore its like he has no control over his emotions. hes getting more and more agressive and angry. Hes even throwing himself on the floor in a tantrum, and I dont know how to help him. He hates loud noises and he's very bright and doing brilliantly academically, and the school have said he's well behaved, but I do need to speak to them in more detail. He has no cconcern for others feelings, and will even laugh when someone is upset. I dont let him get away with any thing and he knows its wrong just doesnt seem to understand why, he cant see anything from others point of views. I have 2 other children and they are not like this at all, they are so different I cant help but think its not quite right.
Ive thought about speaking to gp and trying to get some counceling but thought he might think i was being silly and its just normal behaviour for a 6 year old. ??? am I just a bad mum and doing something really wrong??? and is the gp even the place to go?

yes i think first stop is GP ,list your concerns and ask for a child development clinic referal to a paed. your not a bad mum your not even a first time mum ,im sure you did every thing the same this time as before didnt you and the other two are fine,all this sounds very familiar he has a lot of traits there and there are a few different things it could be not for me to say but if you susspect ASD/ADHD ect as the traits overlap but your his mum you must be concerned to have posted on here so it warrants checking it out doesnt it , good luck , keep posting HTH

Aspergers can be v difficult to diagnose, as it can be so mild but its symptoms include: social problems, lack of empathy, rigid desire to follow own agenda and/or obsessional interests/ dislike of change. Trouble is, sometimes there is a fuzzy line between aspergers and just 'being a boy'. I think there is enough here to go to gp and ask to be seen by a paediatrician. I have an asd boy myself, but I sometimes think pals with borderlne/aspie boys have it v hard - the rigidity and lack of empathy can be v hard to deal with! X

Doesn't sound like ADHD to me as your ds appears to have more obsessional & social difficulties rather than hyperactivity & impulsiveness. Get a GP appointment (without your son) and print out your post listing all his traits and your concerns. They should be able to advise if a referral is warranted ... otherwise you can insist on it

Hi thankyou all for your replies, they're really helpfull. In my heart I know there is something not quite right, family have mentioned it too, but its just not something really obvious. When he was younger I put it down to him being over sensitive/emotional and very fussy, but the older he gets the worse its getting, and the more its making me think its not right. I'm completely emotionally drained and feel like I'm constantly walking on eggshells with him. Thanks for your advice, I feel a little better about seeing the GP now.

If you were a 'bad' mum then you wouldn't be here asking about it.....

His thinking sounds very rigid.

Nobody here would want to offer any diagnosis. We're not the 'right' people to speak to. Be frank with the GP - talk it up to make sure you get to see the developmental paed. Describe him on his 'worse' day.

Sorry am a bit late to the party, glad you decided to go see your GP it's definitely the right thing to do.
And totally agree with "sickofsocalledexperts", do insist to see a pediatrician.
Not trying to diagnose but your DS sounds a bit like my little cousin who has Aspergers - he has made real progress since so it's important to find out sooner rather than later, if that's the case.
Good luck

Sounds similar to ds1(7). school fine and very bright, doing fine academically. They think I am nuts. But out of school, he is awful. Thats why aspergers was suggested to me. I wasn't convinced. But I knew 'somethign' was wrong.AS children often do well at school, behave and then , once they get home and pressure to behave is released they go ballistic.
Ds1 was too mild to get an AS diagnosis. Then they suggested ODD. He is so caring sometimes, but others, so incredibly nasty, defiant, very odd.
He is waiting to undergo a DISCO assessemtn now.
But I guess he is considered mild, so I may never get a diagnosis. Doesn't mean that the last few years haven't been hell on earth though.
Go to your GP, first.

We had all of those things with DS 1 since the age of 3. However were diagmosed with Aspergers only at 8. In years 5 and 6 the demands at school for empathy and communication as well as for social interactions increase very much. The social skill gap becames areal problem. That in turn affects confidence and self esteem, they became stressed and anxious. So I would suggest to keet all the records and to collect all the evidence just in case you would need a statement. Getting SALT and OT assessment, looking at organisation and ability to cope with the transfer to secondary school. Because you would want to have all his needs well understood and the support package (statement or SA+) in place before the secondary transfer.

He sounds just like my dd1 (7) , she has Aspergers syndrome (i would say mild Aspergers), she often plays alone at school because the others wont play her games, she also gets frustrated if she gets something wrong (like drawing or spelling) and will have a meltdown when things go wrong. She gets on well at school (apart fro a few meltdowns) and has no extra help, she loves going to school but does'nt really have any close friends, i would say she has a strong character and is slightly different from other children her age.

"Because you would want to have all his needs well understood and the support package (statement or SA+) in place before the secondary transfer".

I would certainly agree with this point made by TheQuiet. It is at secondary school where it all comes apart and quickly as well if the child is not adequately supported. The problems though really start in Junior school again if the child's needs are not being fully met.

Marne - am really glad to see that your DD is getting on okay at present but would still urge you to apply for a Statement asap and certainly make sure that this is in place before secondary school hones into view. Because that day will surely arrive!!.

mayjay - your DS sounds exactly like mine (also 6). He's very bright, enjoys school and is perfectly behaved there. When he gets home, it's a completely different story! One minute he is loving, the next, over the slightest thing e.g a biscuit breaking while he's eating it, he'll have a complete meltdown, runs in front of cars, throws furniture, hurts me and my DD.

I don't know if he's mild aspergers (school says don't think so) or whether it's attention seeking as DD has until very recently been very unwell with multiple hospital admissions. Had my first meeting with CAMHS last month(without DS present). They've suggested it's my parenting and am devastated!

I'm not sure whether I'm in denial or whether it is me. DD is dyspraxic, dyscalculate and uncontrolled epileptic. I don't know whether it's because I don't want him to have SN and face the difficulties his sister faces.

newlife4us

re your comment:-

"I don't know if he's mild aspergers (school says don't think so) or whether it's attention seeking as DD has until very recently been very unwell with multiple hospital admissions. Had my first meeting with CAMHS last month(without DS present). They've suggested it's my parenting and am devastated!"

School would not recognise AS even if presented with clear evidence of AS so would take no notice of them saying they don't think so.

Did you complain re CAMHS; your child may well be on the ASD spectrum but that would certainly not be due to your parenting. ASD as well is really not their area of expertise; you'd be better off seeing a developmental paediatrician instead.

Oh yes. Teachers know jack about ASD (unless they have one of their own )

In defence of schools - lots of kids come in at 5/6 and take a while to settle into school life. Schools would rarely flag anything up unless 1) they knew what they were looking for and 2) saw it consistently.

You live with it. At school these things could be seen as a blip and in a class of busy children this behaviour could get 'lost' easily. But, like I say, you live with it and you should definitely trust your gut instinct.

Even though it might be telling you something you don't want to hear.

Sorry - I hadn't meant to hijack the thread. I empathize with the OP but ended up ranting!

I have looked at the triad (again) and he doesn't really fit - he has good social imagination, good interaction etc but is very rigid. He's now in a tiny village school and copes much better (he has several close friends that he didn't in the larger school and making heaps of progress). The school are fantastic with SN - the difference they've made to my DD is just incredible.

He was diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder initially, but I'm not sure this fits either - he's so eager to please (especially his teachers). Many friends have suggested he's just bright (he worked out the concept of gravity by himself at the age of 3, for example). If you ask him what he's done at school he will recount the entire day in minute detail, but is obsessive about school. He swings between being perfectly behaved and a little monster , there's nothing in between.

Hi, thanks for your replies, newlife he does sound similar to your ds. although I hear nothing about what happens at school. He doesnt talk much about everyday life, yet will go on and on about mario!

I saw a gp today, lovely as she was she didnt seem very interested. Said he sounded quite troubled and I needed to have a meeting with his teacher at school and they should hopefully sort out councelling for him, and that it would be a long process trying to get to the bottom of it. She said if school dont sort anything out then to go back.

Not sure what I think of it unfortunately, for the reasons spinkle said, I'm not sure what I can expect from the school when they dont see alot of this behaviour. from what I can tell anyway.
Thanks again for your replies

Yes I try to do as much as I can with him, but like you my bodys not able to do alot.
Well his teacher was great, she mentioned how he got upset when he got something wrong or doesnt win, I told her some of what was happening at home and she's going to speak to the SENCO and some other people at school and will then arange a meeting with me to disscus it all. She's taken it pretty seriously so I'm Feeling quite positive now. :) well more so than after speaking to the gp.
If we dont get any where I'll definately go back, thankyou! :)

mayjay - I don't know if your son behaves exactly the same as mine, but from your post they do sound incredibly similar. He too is also a perfectionist and will have a meltdown if everything doesn't go according to plan.

In desperation, I ended up googling controlling behaviour, tantrums, rigidity and perfectionism and all the results which came up suggested general anxiety disorder. Having looked further into it, this does seem to exactly describe my son. There is a website www.anxietybc.com which appears to have some really good strategies to try at home.

I too spoke to my DS's old school but as they didn't see the issues we have at home said they thought he was fine! 18 months on and we have our first CAMHS appointment. Speak to the school, but if they do nothing, keep pushing. Is there a GP at your surgery that specializes in children's health?

Sorry - I missed your last post. His teacher sounds interested, as is my DS's new one - it does make a difference when somebody outside the home notices these things! Best of luck.

Sounds similar to my son who has ASD. Very bright academically, likes to win, can't see other peoples sides, talks about his interest at that time rather than have a 2 way conversation is another of my sons things. Trust your instinct and see your GP, ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician to discuss your concerns.