have a feeling my 4,6 ds has a behavioural problem.

[enimod]

background.. ds1 is now 4.6yo
as baby and toddler disliked large rooms, noises and bright lights. fussy eater.
walked at 11 months, talked full sentences well by 2.
my cousins sons have o.d.d and are on the a.sd.? spectrum.
my brother is aspergic and my father has aspergic traits.
my son has not slept through- wakes in the night still.
went to nursery was "naughty", when he wanted to interact with others would hit them- i put it down to communication problems.
started school in spetember at 4.2 months old-full time. school had him on a home school diary by week 2. started shouting swearing (all mispronounced words that he had heard from the playground), hitting.
he has settled down a bit at school.i thought maybe he was too young for school and was having a testosterone serge.
he has a brother who is 15 months old- he hits his brother, pushes him over, yet says he loves him. he hurts me, kicks, shouts, gets angry.
i am actually a primary school teacher and i am really struggling with his behaviour.
i have tried-ignoring but usually i cant as its directed physically towards his brother or myself.
ive tried reward charts, treats, stickers- naughty step wont work. he currently has 2 jars with smile and sad face on and 20 coins which move between jars.
nothing works.
i love him so much and he can be lovely but i just feel exhauated by him. last term school said they might get someone in to observe him-nothing has progressed and he did seem to settle a bit better.
school keep mentioning that if his routine is slightly altered then things go to pot and he starts misbehaving- as if he cant cope.
what should i be doing with him?

academically he is probably average-orally bright but still doesnt know his colours, does know all his sounds,and can read a few words- has poor concentration and poor fine motor control. still uses both hands to write with.

you probably know in your heart of hearts already dont you theres something there , a lot of traits can overlap, so i dont want to say but there are quite a few possibilities ,your his mum so you know him best so if your worried (and i can see why as it all sounds familiar)i would go to the GP and ask for a referal to the child development clinic to see a paediatrician and do your best to try and not worry , were all here on MN with you , good luck

oh god- i know, ive known for ages but have been in denial. i keep thinking maybe he'll grow out of it-maybe its my poor parenting, jealousy, testosterone.
tobe honest though- i dont know what traits he has and what group of .isms he belongs to. i cant word that correctly! i know i shouldnt label him- but if i could pin point where he lies then i could arm myself.
i have been to the doctors with him because we had a car crash in september just sfter he had started school, we were all unhurt but this is when his behaviour really shanged and the swearing began. the doctor was not worried and seemed to imply he had been smothered by me and was jealous of baby.

Go and see your GP without your DS so that you can speak freely and ask for him to be referred for an assessment. You are clearly worried and the school are also mentioning difficulties too. That in itself is good enough reason to have him checked out.

If he does have an autistic spectrum disorder he needs support which is appropriately targeted rather than the general firefighting which would be available without a diagnosis.

i too would say go and see GP alone - i did for my eldest DD (ADHD and possible aspergers) and ended up bursting into ters in her office so was glad i went alone!! We still dont have support in school (school in denial) for her but at least i know what is wrong and that its not DD just being naughty

thank you- do you think then i should not ask the school for the observation and go straight to the gp?is he very different from other 4.6 year olds?
i am aware that he is different from his younger brother but i put that down to personality, i seem to have forgotten what other childrne are like-as i run around in a haze after him so often.
also, my partner-his dad suffered with schizophrenia as a teenager and young adult- would this be "made known" to the school etc- also would this make the observer "delve" more into us as a family?

Don't wait for school. It might take ages. Go see your GP and you can be doing both routes in parallel. If it's nothing much then you'll be reassured, but to be honest, with that family history and his behaviour it certainly could be something on the spectrum. Keep posting.

makes me feel worse really-i ll see how he has gone at school today and tell them that i am making a doctors appointment to discuss his behaviour.(its quite embarrassing as i worked at the school previously!)

Sorry enimod. Don't want to make it worse. But if it is anything, the sooner you get on to it the better. As you're a teacher you know how long everything takes. He's still your lovely boy, whatever.

thank you am on to it x
do keep hoping he'll grow out of it?! but i know deep down-he needs a bit more support- or i do anyway.

i took my Ds to SS today for the first time and cried when i had to leave him i was in denial at first kept thinking it will be ok like you have just said then we tried to get a dx but was sent in circles and after 2 years gave up, no parent wants a label no we went and started again as he desperately needed help now and got his dx ASD & ADHD i felt a fool crying i mean i ddint cry with all 3 of my DC leaving themat pre school i was ok now hes 10 and i leave him at a SS today and blubbered my eyes out i think it feels real for first time today i always knew it was its been a living hell at times fantastically funny others life with hims a real rollercoaster and i wouldnt have him any other way he is (X) its part of what makes him him IYSWIM but today that really felt life changing moment even more than the day i sat in the paed office and she gave me the DX am i weird?

Sorry BB. Daft isn't it how finally getting what you've been fighting for can upset you so much. You know they'll really understand him and he'll have the best chance to achieve his potential there. You've done the right thing. Did he have a good day?

Sorry enimod, for hi-jacking your thread.

lol he said it was better but at same time he was very upset as i wasnt told they have swimming forst day back so he had to wait at side of the pool i know they dont ring with little probs ect they just get on with it but id have been happy popping back to get his trunks i wouldnt have minded apart from that (as he focus's always on the negative) i think he was ok with it going to take time to settle ty

oh i still arent sure what to do-i spoke to a mum at the park our sons play there together after school-they are at differetn schools and she said she thought "90%" of the time he was just like her "normal"son- maybe i am being neurotic?? i had a word with school and his previous teacher (job share) has just started maternity leave and they are going to see how he copes with the change of a new teacher. they do think he has settled down.
he came home from school and was adorable!(apart from bashing his brother a few times and splashing in the bath and flooding the floor-but i think that is "normal"for a child his age)
i do think that school would work fast- as i have worked for them and it is a very small school etc.
i am going to monitor the situation and him before i go to the doctors.

Hi enimod
Whats he like playing with other kids? Is he sociable?

Is the school up on ASD? Could you ask them to try behavioural / ASD approaches similar to they would use for ASD and support learning eg with visuals (is he a visual learner?). It really does not matter if he is diagnosable or not and if its mild it may be years before you 'know' but you can start treating him as though he is and see if that leads to an improvement in behaviour. My son is severe ASD and we use ABA and tbh you can use behavioural / ASD approaches for any child, indeed I often wish I could ABA my other two kids as DS3 (ASD) will do what he is told and the other two (non ASD) ignore me or talk back!

We use ABA for dealing with routines, breaking down rigidity, teaching learning to learn skills, improving memory, attention, social skills (we had a problem with hitting too). You might have to accept that skills other kids just pick up have to be specifically taught but understand that you CAN teach them, especially for a child who if he is on the spectrum is verbal and has a normal IQ.

Other options are using visual timetables / supports.

You can teach colours etc with visuals - computer programmes often work with spectrum children - lots of stuff on cbeebies and poissonrouge on colours etc. You may have to teach systematically in small steps and not overload with lots of info eg just teach 2 colours in quiet 1:1 situation.

You should try a reward based system based on something your DS is really motivated by - watch what he goes for and use that (then restrict access to it!) - the usual discipline techniques do not work with ASD often but finding something they like can - my DS loves pictures and gets tokens on a board - some children work towards something eg tokens for computer time but for him the pictures themselves are reward enough. At the start the reward needs to be immediate and then build up time.

The school should be geared up for such approaches. They may have to ditch their usual methods though. Are they providing any 1:1?

Get them to do some observations of what happens before and after poor behaviour.

Get them to watch in the playground / during unstructured times as well

fantastic ideas and replies.
he is quite sociable not shy but does not play properly and will go up to and ask to play with people and be in their space but kind of talk at them rather than to them- he has just i hope stopped hitting childrne and pushing them when he wants their attention. he can though inteact fine- but it has to be on his terms and in a familiar setting.
when he plays with others he gets quite physical- they might be playing at superheros- he actually becomes a superhero and will fight- it takes over him. he does not realise he is being naughty hurting others as he is being spiderman and thats what spiderman does.
i think i am to blame for a lot of his inteaction behaviour as i always observe him and step in- i dont want him to hurt people when he really doesnt want to hurt people.
school must think he has asd tendancies because they have had him on a diary, he has his own visual day diary and things to do- he was bamboozled by choice so he has a box of things to choose from instead of a room of things, initially when they asked the class to tody up he would hide or create- i explained he needed something specific- so he has the sweeping job. they are aware he will create if something interfers with his normal day etc.
he is in a very small school and only 2 other children are in his year group and 15 others in his class-he gets lots of nearly 1:1.
i am going to really think of a reward system or sanction that works and is visual.
thank you

what does ABA mean?

It stands for Applied Behavioural Analysis. I've never looked into it myself but it seems to be some sort of method for managing behaviour and I think it involves trained professionals.

Might be worth a Google while you wait for someone who knows more about it to come along.