Why would they ask this?

[PaperView]

DS2 is under the CAMHS team for investigation for ASD. He already has an informal dx of sensory processing disorder and dyspraxia.

One of the questions CAMHS asked was whether i have ever suffered from depression. I keep reading (online ) that i won't have caused any of his issues so why would they ask this?

(Have also posted in MH for diff perspective)

Apologies STarlight. I misinterpreted your post.

A CAMHS psychologist concluded that DD1 had attachment disorder due to my post natal depression at our first appointment. I had no idea what it was but was really upset when I went home and Googled it.

Thank goodness she happened to be passed on to a different psychologist for CBT who is an AS specialist and he recognised it in her very quickly.

DD2 is now being assessed for ASD but another psychologist thinks she just has control issues due to badly managed boundaries at home.

They do have to explore all the options but it does seem that the assumption of bad parenting is made automatically and must then be disproved.

I know i am a bad parent but tat works alright for the other 2 lol!

Wow, just read all this and don't know what to think. I can't believe they need to ask this.

I have one of each atm, my ds has asd and my foster child has rad, so I know there is crossover of behavoiurs.

We are under camhs for fc and have been referred for ds, but after reading this I might give it a miss, I don't want to be blamed for my ds's special needs.

PaperView when is your next appointment? If you were a bad parent you wouldn't be asking for help. But it's not going to do your self esteem any good to get blame from proffesionals when all you wanr is help and stratagies.

Please let us know how you get on.

sumum don't let it put you off getting help for your child. Although an assumption about attachment was made very early on they put it right and since then I can't fault the support we've had from CAMHS. They've been thorough and professional and very supportive.

Sumum - so far i have discovered that it better to be on the rollercoaster than have to access it! It took a very very long time to even get a referral!

We don't have a next appointment date yet. WE are waiting for a phone call when they have all the reports in etc.

Well tbh I was worried before I read this thread as i know how they can sometimes be from my experience as a foster carer.
At least as a parent I can tell them to get lost if they are not helpful. We have our dx now so i presume they can't change that?

I'm sorry sumum i didn't mean to worry you. I am really struggling at the mo and very low, this question threw me as i already blame myself and it felt like thy confirmed it.

Don't worry about me, I will just bite them back

And don'r blame yourself, really. I have seen some rubbish parents who can be blamed for their kids problems and they don't question themselves!!!!

Just so you know - YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME FOR YOUR DS'S SN.

Oh paper I have just ead through this thread, and I am worried you are taking on guilt for something that is not your fault. ASD is something they are born with, you can't create it by being depressed, or by there being a history of depression in the family. Depression could very well be linked in socialogy terms, having an "disabled" or "SN" child is very hard work, we all know that, that is our lives, and I bet many of us our depressed much of the time. I know I am, but I also know that hasn't created my ds' medical disability any more than it has for your you and your ds. Please listen to everyone on hear. Tell CAHMS nothing about it, and they can look for a proper dx that will help you then.

Whilst I am on my soapbox, anybody who says "a label isn't helpful" can come over to me and I will punch them reason with them as to why a label can be very helpful.

obviously meant everyone on here.....not hear

lol that made me smilesparkle punch them reason with them classic

Depression isn't bad parenting.

I have done a fair bit of diagnostic work and yes, depression is something that is considered with reference to attachment disorders but in the main, most professionals are acutely aware that having a child who may not be typically responsive can cause depression.

Many years ago, I worked with a family where the mum had severe PND and a history of mental illness who had very, very little interaction with her young son. I first saw him at 18 months when he was appeared to have global developmental delay but it emerged (over time) that he was being strapped into a buggy and left for hours at a time because his poor mum just couldn't cope. It was clear at that time that he was desperately trying to interact with her/lock onto her eye gaze/smile at her/get her attention but she just couldn't give him that attention because she was ill, not because she was a bad parent. She wanted nothing but the best for that boy. We did a lot of work on supporting her to recognise his communication attempts and he began to talk and things seemed to progress from there, with the GDD label being removed at 3.5. A few years later he came for autism assessment. He had lots of features that seemed "autisticky" to school - he had strange language patterns, was a bit rigid in what he would do and wouldn't do, there were issues around feeding/toileting etc, issues with peers. However, there were many features that fitted more closely with RAD e.g. lack of boundaries/overtly affectionate indiscriminately etc.

In this case, the information about mum's previous mental health was very relevant to determining whether a label of ASC was appropriate. There are many cases where children appear to be on the spectrum where mums have a history of depression but it is likely that it is because they have a "difficult" or less responsive baby which interfered with bonding. It is important for professionals to know about a history of maternal depression just as much because it may indicate that difficulties existed from early infancy as anything else: it is not at all about "blaming" the parent.

Don't get me wrong: I have sat in meetings where people were very unsubtle in their approach and where I have strongly argued against lazy assumptions based on reported early histories. However, there is a reason for these questions to be asked... it's not to find fault with the primary carer and if it feels that it is being asked in that way, challenge it and ask for a rationale.

But if we don't feel we can trust them, we're not going to be honest with them.

I suppose I am trying to say that if the professionals are at all, well, professional, then they are asking as this is a factor relevant to the diagnostic procedure and not to "blame" the parent for how the child is presenting.

I am worried that people are talking about lying and omitting this information for fear that it will prevent their child getting a diagnosis. I can tell you thatin my experience, there have been very many more parents who reported depression whose children obtained diagnoses than those who did not receive a diagnosis because of this one factor. A proper diagnostic procedure should involve a whole team of professionals to consider the child holistically to avoid situations like Al1son described where one factor is seized upon as a "yay" or "nay" immediately.

I know that, sadly, there are rubbish professionals like Al1sons's out there.. but this is no reason to lie or to omit relevant information, as there are rubbish professionals in every field in terms of healthcare. I can't say it enough: depression is not a parenting fault, it is an illness and it may be an important piece of information in determining diagnosis.

I know it is rubbish that the system is as shoddy as it is and that people feel that they can't have faith in it.. but to be pragmatic about it, I think that deciding to leave this out can backfire e.g. it can lead to a parent painting a too rosey picture of early infancy which (in my experience) is far more often considered evidence that a diagnosis may not be appropriate e.g. "oh my baby and I bonded fantastically from day one and he was very responsive and cooing and gurgling and full of fun until he was eighteen months". I am not specifically talking about stories of regression here, but an inconsistent picture e.g. the "story" that is told about early infancy just doesn't match up with that child at 1, 2 or 3. I will say that I have found that sometimes in desperation at the crapness of it all that parents come in reeling off lists of symptoms that are sometimes even contradictory because they just want to "press the right buttons" because they are absolutely worn out from trying to get to that point and feel that they have to prove their case or else face an eternity with no support.

The sad reality is that this is much more likely to cause a team to query a diagnosis than, well, the actual truth. It can be very confusing when you're trying to wade through information to make a diagnosis and a lot of it seems to be worded as though it were a DSM-IV manual instead of as a parent telling you about their child.

I fully appreciate the reasons why this happens and that it is our fault as professionals and the fault of the slow, clunky system which is inadequate in so many regards.. but I would urge people to be honest because an honest case history combined with the relevant assessments and a proper multidisciplinary process should be sufficient to obtain a diagnosis if that diagnosis is accurate for that child at that time. If the result is not what you feel to be true about your child, then you can challenge the rationale and unpick it and demand that the reason for the decision is discussed in detail with you to aid this e.g. fight when you have to when it comes to diagnosis, rather than trying to "cut them off at the pass" when it might not be something that helps obtain a favourable outcome anyway.

Hope this makes sense?

I omitted the information.

I don't feel it relevant to DS2.

Fair enough, but I do hope that I have given some explanation of why it is asked and that it shouldn't be seen to be about blame at all e.g. it is more likely asked as it often may indicate that there were things going on in your son't development that might have made you feel low e.g. he might have not responded to you in the way that your other child did etc e.g. it is asked as much because depression can be a symptom of an unusual developmental pattern within the child.

Of course, they will also be screening for attachment issues.. but it is one piece of information among (hopefully, if they are doing their jobs right) a huge amount of information that will be analysed to arrive at a conclusion.

BUt the way you explained it it was about blame. Your case above was the others depression causing the childs delay.

mothers*

Also, sometimes things don't tally e.g. a child will not score as having autistic features on the ADOS/DISCO etc and not have a linguistic or cognitive profile that points to AS/ASC but be demonstrating very concerning "autistic like" behaviour in other areas that are at odds with all of this.. which may have an emotional or behavioural component and which may in rare circumstances reflect parenting issues.

The best example I can give is a case I know of where the child was exhibiting extreme self-stimulatory/avoidance behaviours/self-isolating/self-harming/selectively mute in some settings but was presenting very differently in school. As LeonieDelt will tell you, this can be quite typical of children who are higher functioning on the spectrum BUT in this case, as the assessment unfolded, it emerged that the child had a history of extremely severe sexual and physical abuse for the first few years, and had subsequently had all sorts of other stuff happen e.g. homelessness, witnessing a parental death for in their early years. This is obviously omitting quite a lot of detail but giving you a broad idea of some of the issues. Could the child still have had autism? Yes - and the process took ages in this instance because no one was really sure and no one wanted to NOT diagnose if that was also a contributory reason for the behaviour. Sometimes it is because of experiences.. sometimes it's really hard to work out where the genetic/organic side finishes and experiences take over.. so professionals HAVE to ask because when you first come to see them they don't know that you're not going to reveal all of this type of stuff, which can make a real difference to how they view a behaviour.

As I have said here before, as there is no blood test, all that professionals have to go on is observation of behaviour and weighing up all available evidence to enable them to accurately interpret that behaviour.

But again, this question is NOT asked because it's cheaper to have an attachment disorder diagnosis or because anyone believes that the difficulties are a parent's fault.

OK, you properly explained why they need to ask. Made me feel like shit but i asked for the explanation lol!