I think my adult brother has something but not sure what it is, help?

[solooovely]

Hi, I wonder if anyone can help. My brother I believe has undiagnosed SN and I wondered if I were to describe him a bit it might ring bells with someone. He is a grown up now (he's 40) but I have always wondered what was causing him to be different. I have often suspected aspergers or autism or something like that. I'm curious about it all really (my parents burried their heads in the sand and never acknowledged it so he/we got no help), and also worry about my own children as I know some of these things are heriditary. So here goes:

He was obsessed with train timetables as a child and used to read them a lot and copy out some of the info from them. He used to run over the road everytime a train came and climb up onto a wall to watch them pass (even as an adult).

He was also into football (but then what man isn't) but quite intensely and would take it very seriously, to extreme I think and would be shouting at the ref like the ref could hear him, and also the weather. He would always be watching the weather on telly or looking out the windows to check it out. If there was exciting weather (hale, snow) he would run from window to window.

(by the way, I'm using past tense only because we have sort of lost touch at the moment . . . long story!)

He had what I consider to be a low IQ and understanding of things. There were simple things that he couldn't get his head around and would then get very angry.

He was hardly able to make his own phone calls so my mum used to make them for him. (My mum did everything for him)

He was bullied at school.

He used to dismantle electrical objects around the house and would be unable to put them back together.

He got (and still does as an adult) into fights.

He always had a horrendous temper and would punch holes in doors/windows/my face etc way into adulthood and probably still does. He'd often get into such a rage that he would have to be restrained, which would take several people as he'd be like a wild animal.

He would also laugh in an extreme way about things which weren't really funny at all, and laugh really loudly. His reactions to most things were generally extreme whether that was laughter or anger.

He didn't know his whole alphabet by the time he was 25 (no one, my parents or the school, seemed to notice or do anything).

He would not quite look me in the eye when angry but would look just to the side of me.

He walks on the balls of his feet.

When standing he moves from one foot to the other constantly.

Always shouting when talking.

Can hold down a job for a while but ususally gets sacked for getting into a fight.

Has terrible road rage.

Ok, well they are the one's that pop into my head.

Thanks

Some of the things you describe could be down to AS or ASD. The obsessions with trains and the weather for instance. Haven't heard of football before unless it was more an interest in the league tables and stats than the actual match. But what do I know?

The walking on tiptoe and rocking from side to side sound familiar. As does poor eye contact, poor social skills, shouting when talking. I've not personally seen much violence but I'm probably just lucky. Someone else will advise you on that I'm sure.

Did he have rigid reliance on routine? IE wanting to use the same routes, do the same thing at the same time even on weekends, have strange and rigid eating habits? An undiagnosed brother of my friend would only eat meatloaf.

IQ levels are tricky as ASD can affect any IQ, but were there some things he could do really well and others he struggled with? Lots of people with high functioning ASD will be better at maths and science as they require less empathy or imagination than English or history (or RE.)

There are lots of adults out there undiagnosed who just about manage to get along or even do very well. The thinking is that lots of great scientists, engineers and mathematicians may have been on the spectrum and that as a world we need this diversity.

I'm sure other MNers will have more info and opinions for you. But we're not general experts, we're just very aware of our own situation and probably well read up on the subject.

One of the first questions my DS2's paediatrician asked us was did we have any eccentric or quirky relatives. (We do!) But I wouldn't be without any of my boys. It was a risk worth taking for us. HTH

I've never been aware of the routine thing or major problems with eating habits or anything. Not that I can think of at the moment anyway.

I would say that he was better at maths then anything else but he was no mathematical genius. Definately no good at English or History. His handwriting was also weird and small. He seemed to press down really hard.

As for quirky relatives, well my brother is definately that. On my mums side there is a great uncle that I've heard about. On my dad's side . . . well I think my dad is a bit unusual too.

Definately agree with the world needing diversity. Think I get scared as it was so horrible growing up with my brother. He was violent to me on a regular basis and my parents weren't capable of dealing with it and did literally nothing. I felt very unprotected.

Also, forgot to mention that it could be hard to hold a conversation with him as he would start talking but miss out vital info (the name of the person he was talking about for example) but would expect you to know. As though he's had the first part of the conversation in his head but thought we could hear it. Or he would say "oh you know, that bloke . . ." and we'd say "no what bloke?" and he would get very frustrated and would often lose it and lash out.

I was scared to speak to him most of the time.

Support and recognition are very different these days. I should imagine that even if your mum had asked for support there would have been next to nothing. It was all down to bad parenting then!
Would your brother want a dx? He would be part of the process and if he didn't want one, or the professionals could see no benefit of giving a dx, i doubt if they would be overly supportive.
The most important part seems to be the worry you have for your children. Do you have any specific issues that you are worried about?
Being proactive and early intervention leads to the best outcomes, so sometimes if you know that there is familial history it can help in dx. Genetics can play a part, but then can so many other factors as well.
Do you see any similar traits in your children?

I know several people who have been diagnosed as adults because these things weren't recognised when people in their 40s were growing up.
The picture could easily be ASD/Aspergers but it could be something else, and your brother would have to seek diagnosis himself to find out.
It sounds as though it was very hard for you when he was growing up, but hard for your parents too as there was little information about in those days. I know someone of 36 who has been diagnosed and his mother said it was such a relief because all those years she had been wondering what she was doing wrong. He is one of five and all his siblings feel they suffered, and coped in different ways.
If you are worried about your own children there are so many sources of information, this being one of the best of them.
Although people get frustrated with the SEN system as it is, it is far better than it would have been for your brother.

auntevil Yeah I know that my mum and dad wouldn't have got much help. The weird thing me like they don't know what I am talking about. I have said I think he has some sort of SN but they seem to be completely in denial. Year ago people like this were just thought of a a bit weird or eccentric or something.

I am not in touch with my brother at the moment due to the fact that he is incedibly easily lead and has been turned against his family. It's sad because it's so easy to manipulate his opinions and confuse him which is what has happened. So I'm not in a position to suggesst getting a DX to him. Can't imagine doing it without hurting his feelings anyway. With an adult it's a bit like saying "you are not normal" however you put it. I amgenerally interested in the subject though, I guess triggered by my own experience.

You say that "genetics play a part but so do other factors" . . . what other factors are there that influence this or was that just a general comment?

I do worry abut my own children yes. There is nothing specific although certain worried come and go. My oldes (5) can be a bit away with the fairies and is extreme (in emotional responses) sometimes, contrary and a bit controlling which used to be very difficult. School are happy though so I'm guessing just a strong personality. My youngest (2.5) looks a bit like my brother so I find that weird but seems fine otherwise. You do hear about regression though don't you, so that plays on my mind. He's so lovely it would break my heart if he changed.

Should also add that my 5yo has excellent communication and social skills and no weird repetetive/lining up habits. Think her controlling ways came from the fact that I was an emotional mess for the first 4 years of her life. I was in a terrible state and I don't see how that could have NOT affected her. So when she was over emotional from a baby I put it down to this, as she was with me all day everyday so it was her life. I really was in a bad way, went through a trauma which has had a massive inpact on my life and sadly on my oldest. Have been dealing with it ever since and get better every day. I'm hoping that the calmer I become the calmer she will become.

There is so much documentation on possible factors that could contribute to ASDs. You could quite honestly google yourself senseless at trying to find those that fit your own circumstances. Some research is very credible and makes a load of sense, some i have my doubts as to their credibility. You will have no doubt heard the MMR connection and the related press from both sides. There are aspects such as traumatic births, gap between pregnancies etc etc.
I'm with EllenJane - when you try for a family - you weigh up the risks - particularly if you have history you are concerned about. It wouldn't have changed my mind.

I have to pop out now but thank you to everyone who has replied so far, you've all been very sweet x

Glad to be of help. It helps sometimes just to put your concerns down in writing to sort them out in your own mind. You probably can't help your brother now but it is necessary to acknowledge to yourself the impact growing up with him had on you.

Your children sound lovely and even if they did end up looking like they were on the spectrum ( they don't btw) they'd still be your lovely children and you would make sure they got whatever help they needed, unlike your poor parents who went through it in a less enlightened time.

Sorry, I'm rambling. You've had some great advice from those MNers today. Best of luck with it all.

solooovely
Some of the issues you have described are all part of having Auditory Processing Disorder (APD) which can be one of the many cognitive issues which can combine to cause Aspergers and other issues on the Autistic Spectrum.
Having APD on it own causes communication problems, APD is a listening disability, or not being able to process what you hear. This can cause poor auditory memory, word (name) recall problems, not being able to follow verbal conversations, not being able to follow verbal instructions.
APD has genetic origins as do most of the underlying cognitive deficits or disorders which can cause these types of communication problems, and it has only been the research of the last decade or so that has provided the real insight into the neurological causes these issues with the advances in neuroimaging technologies such as fMRI.

Many parents go into denial if their children have these types of problems, for a whole range of reasons, social stigma, not knowing how best to help, not knowing who to ask for help, and the biggest issue of all is the genetic link, nearly all of these problems are shared by at least one biological parent, many of whom have spent their whole live trying to hide or conceal their own cognitive deficits or weaknesses, and to have to admit to own weaknesses can be one step too far.

To develop coping strategies to work around these types of information processing deficits can require a great deal of control of the immediate communication environment, to allow the coping strategies to work, and prevent distractions, be detrimental to those coping strategies being effective.

Please don't worry about regression :( my little angel regressed at 3-3.5 years and lost all his skills after having excellent development but for ASD that is againt the norm apparently which is why he is being assessed for degenerate brain conditions. I worry that if I ever have another child I'll just be dead paranoid but I would hate it to spoil the time I had with my ds before he regressed as I have such good memories... We had NO family history of any SN before him, life just happens so just enjoy your lovely children and try to put everything else out
of your mind (although I'm hardy one to preech that I'll probably never have another child due to major paranoier now)

dolfrog - I've never really heard of that before, it all sounds so complicated! Thanks for the information and I'll re-read it a bit later when I have more energy (just woke from an inpromptu nap and am still half asleep).

hanaha88 - so sorry that you are going through this with your child. It must be horrendous! How far along are the drs to finding out what is causing it? How old is your dc?