ASD and consequences

[IndigoBell]

My DS will not accept any kind of 'consequences' for behaviour at school.

Total melt down for being kept in for some of playtime for something he knows was wrong...

School are very good and are talking to the ASD team as to what they should do, but I just wondered if any of you had any suggestions?

(They very rarely need or use 'consequences', but yesterday he hit someone and then was rude to the HT.......)

As it is today he won't go into class at all because he can't accept that he has to lose half his playtime because of his behaviour yesterday. (He also didn't go into class yesterday afternoon because he was too upset. And actually spent most of the afternoon under a desk crying :( )

He is also very worried that nobody will ever forgive or forget his 'outburst' yesterday. Any tips for how to get him to stop worrying about this?

Ahhhh the rigid thinking of ASD. I expect he's got a real downer on himself at the moment.

I think the consequences thing is really hard because ASDers live in the moment a lot of the time. Also, because they live by their rules they sometimes don't get that what they did was wrong.

I don't wanna play the social stories card here, because that always seems to get trotted out to me in RL from stupid people, but maybe you could work on building one together. And going over it. And over it. And over it. And over it. And, well, you know how it goes with ASD....

hi indigobell my Ds wasnt getting on and wasnt having his needs met in MS school one of the areas he had a lot of trouble with was understanding the rules and appropriate behaviour in more unstructured time like PE or break/lunch i have not a particular suggestion except to say what the SS(ASD)do is make sure that whatever the consequence is that it if at all possible should be same day as a lot of AS an ASd dc dont understand the next day what they did by then esp if they are punished for something they did friday the following weekand i understand him feeling no one forgives him this is probably why also the SS say what happened at school should be delt with and left inside the gates and not punished at home lastly what they do is after they tell DC this is unacepptable or give a punishment like less/no play or goldent time ect that its never mentioned again, my DS would be upset with all of us esp at his bigbrother take it out on him and then we would have it all dragged up again in a meeting across the table the following day or week DS would be devastated and not even remember outbursts/actions from when he was in a heightend state and how incredibly scarey to be sat at a huge desk as if on trial for little ones very intimidating for myself i usually feel , very awkward but id ask can they just do what they have to do to punish himect and drop it as it has far reaching side effects otherwise HTH

Whilst I have LOADS of issues with my DS school as to why they put him in such situations that result in bad behaviour, the one thing they do do right is that when I have picked him up because he has had a meltdown or if it has been a particularly bad day the teacher or the HT/SENCO ALWAYS say to my DS that "we look forward to seeing you tomorrow and todays events are behind us, tomorrow is a new day and we start with a clean slate"

Because of this DS is now able to still go back to school without feeling daunted about it all. If he does get iffy I just repeat it is a new day today.

As for consequences what they do is give him 3 choices for his bad behaviour. ie they tell him that it is not good and because of it there is a consequence but give HIM 3 choices to choose from. It tends to let him reasonably be in control of his own punishment so to speak and so he is calmer. He still knows he was wrong because they discuss it after he has done his chosen consequence.

thats a good idea as my son when he had a home tutor for a while did a sheet at the end of the day (not weekly as this is too far in future for DS to undrstand)appropriate behaviours ie:
1, did i sit still today
2, did i listen
3, was i rude
4,did i shout out answers instead put hand up
ect ect she probably phrased them better than i have in a less negative manner then there was a box at the side and she would let him self regulate and tick the boxes add the ticks up a stamp on the bottom for 3 ticks and a book to write in himself if he though he had had a good or bad day , this worked well for him he quite liked it because instead of a negative she would each day prase him and let him spend 10/20 depends how good he'd been that day doing something fun like [lay on DS, theres no way he would ever have "golden time" on friday as he would almost always do something he shouldnt before the friday the expectations of the teacher n TA were far too high

Thanks guys.

The idea of him choosing his punishment might work.

The clean slate thing I don't think will work, but I'll mention that as well......

They couldn't punish him yesterday when it happened because he spent the whole rest of the day under a desk crying.

He's been at this school 2 terms, and this is the first time things have escalated this far. But of course now I'm worried that it'll happen again and again......

aww bless him mine hides under his duvet pillows anything comes to hand at school he hides in cupbooards under tables they need to close out everything shut out the world unfortunately my DS got worse and worse in MS but lets hope your DS improves they are all different how old is yr DS indigobell my DS is now nearly 11 so starting to go through puberty as his brother did and i did at about 10 so i think this is one reasons im having THE worst time ever ATM

I also don't think punishments should be carried over to another day.
It sounds like he punished himself enough under the desk.
My ds was sent home last week mid morning for bad behavoiur, i made him write a sorry note at home but the next day everyone made a fresh start.

He's 10. Don't think he's starting puberty yet....

School are just looking at it as '2 steps forward 1 step back' and keep emphasising what progress he has made to have so many friends (which is what is causing him extra stress...)

I think they'll think twice before punishing him again......

They only ever tried a whole class punishment once

They don't want to send him home, because that could be viewed as a reward not a punishment...

yes ive done that too the note thing having said that maybe thats what the teacher should once hes calmed down ask him to do if hes hit someone a nice drawing to say sorry something along those lines but depends how old my DS wouldnt do anything like that now hes older.

@ Indigo

Is he supervised in during playtime? or someone in the distance watching over?

If he has had a sudden influx of friends it just might be all a bit overwhealming for him poor chap. Or if no one was overseeing then maybe someone said something that just hit a nerve with him which might be the reason he was so worked up and rude to the HT but couldnt explain that it wasnt his fault.

They certainly shouldnt carry on consequences to the next day. If its necessary then it should happen there and then. With my DS he can change so quickly within the space of thirty minutes and what he has done is totaly forgotten in his head.

He is 'supervised from afar'

He punched a kid who wasn't following the rules of the game. And they weren't trying to tell off DS, they were trying to just remove the poor friend from under DSs fists - but it all kinda got out of control.

Anyway, day is over. Punishment is over. And I hope school have learnt how to handle him better next time.....

He was only rude to the HT when she said there would be consequences.....

Need to find out what the lovely lady from the ASD team has advised them for next time....

Well he was prob rude because of the stress overload bless.

My DS school have since learnt that when DS runs to leave him where he lands. (well for last two days they have and its paid off) then when he comes out from hiding he is calm enough for them to say there is a consequence and up come the three choices.

I hope the ASD team help the school sort it out must have been terrible for your poor DS.

Another day another smile :o

It all worked out OK in the end.

He managed about half of his time inside at playtime, before they took pity on him because he was so agitated, and said he could go.

Then after playtime he has Maths, and because it's set he is not with his regular teacher and TA, so they said to him - "Do you want to go to Mrs X's maths class" - where Mrs X is a teacher who he gets on with, and she takes the top Y6 maths set (he's in Y5).

Inspired decision! He went very happily to that, did all the work easily, and taught the Y6s all about Archimedes.....

This is exactly the problem I'm having with my ds (or rather his school). I am managing quite well at home where he feels secure, but he is having real problems at school where he is violent towards other children or teachers. I have asked them what happens just before he lashes out but nobody can tell me all they're interested in is what punishment I'm giving him at home for this bad behaviour.
I refuse to take it home with us as he then becomes incredibly worked up and anxious and in the past has become violent at home as he doesn't even understand what he has done! I have learnt the hard way how to manage him and feel I do a good job at keeping him calm so that he goes to school feeling calm and in control - my job done!
I have had his class teacher confront me about it, the Deputy HT even phoned me about threatening a Pupil Referal Unit, and even the Home/school link worker had a 'go', saying that he needed to learn about consequences.

While they are all blaming me this little boy (6) is hating school and all the teachers, and really suffering at playtime and during classroom activities. I had a good cry yesterday and generally feel like screaming most days, so reading this thread has really helped to strengthen my resolve and not be bullied into anything I inherently feel is wrong.

I've made a note of the ideas and will suggest them at the next meeting at the school.

i felt exactly the same Lambskin the school appear to totally treat it as if DS is just naughty even with a DX they dont have a clue and have not followed any stratagies although they claim they do to bring him down from his heightened state of anxiety then expect to punish him then me punish him and then drag it all back up the following day or if weekend monday this totally goes against how I feel and i know the SS for ASD feel it should be handled then to top it off when they could just direct him to his quiet room they dont bother they try and handle it in front of everyone then physically drag him back into school to the HT and wonder why he wont calm down (she was at a meeting last time and he was left there for an hour) how scary is that and intimidating and all over something very trivial indeed that they only had to use a bit of common sense to avoid

bettyboop63 how old was your ds when they dx him? The EP says my ds is too young to be dx as AS so they've said he has 'anxiety issues' which doesn't even touch it! He was assessed by integrated services(CCD -Autism) and the report describes a child with AS; poor eye contact, inappropriate comments, facial grimacing, a need to feel in control etc etc, but they refuse to do anything until he's 7!

I don't know what to do next. I have been advised to go back to the LEA and also to ask to be referred to a paediatrician by another mother at his school (her ds is now 17 and has been totally let down every step of the way. It's terrifying when I think about the future so I just focus on each day and get through that with lots of hugs (if permitted) and laughs (and there are plenty of those) as we can.

my son was very late as we were ignored even though he had extreme traits "clasic Autistic" and an IEP from pre school and was on SA+ for over 3 years but i have heard of others as young as 2 in very autistic cases being DX very early they often claim "we dont want to put a label on yr DS/DD" but tbh they wont get the REAL help they need untill you do and a statement is in place, i was advised and you can do this too to ask the LA for a statement yourself you dont have to wait for the school and i got my GP to refer me to the child development paediatrician.
The main reason most schools /lea dont want you to get a DX or a statements simple , its funding because the statement is a legal binding document that the have to follow its guidelines set out and it wont be cheap have you looked at the SEN CODE OF PRACTICE? and if you have one where you live google your Parent Partnership mines fantastic mine of info and cant do enough for me , she goes everywhere with me and rings a lot of "profeshionals" for me as they take more notice of her as she knows the law and sen off by heart HTH

I've been told no way for a statement because he is so bright (not the point!) which is why I've now switched the focus onto the dx. Thanks for the advice though, that's really helpful. I'm going to make everyone's life a misery until ds gets the help he needs
I don't know what I'd do without MN it really helps just to know you're not alone.

Lambskin

The fact that your DS is so bright is not the point. That doesnt mean that your ds has no issues bless him. My DS just passed tests for a 7 yr old and he is only 5. But he has serious behavioural issues. That doesnt mean that your ds has no issues bless him. If the school are harping on about his behaviour then they should be helping you and your son.

School is pushing for a statement but it is taking too long and I have gone the GP way myself. Got an appointment 2nd March so I let you know what they think then and what happens next if you like :)

His school started off wanting to know how I reprimanded him at home. But DS wont take it so what I do is discuss with DS WHAT can we do to avoid you getting so upset hmmm? Or it couldnt have been a nice day for you today give him a hug and let him tell you what happened and find some solution if you can. He tends to talk a little bit more that way instead of going in guns blazing which they dont need to be honest as they have been stressed enough as it is.

@ Indigo

I am so glad the day passed ok for your DS :)

Coff33pot

Thank you, it would be lovely to know how you get on .

I've decided to keep pushing for the statement. The DHT (school is between HTs at mo) phoned me last night to (yet again!) threaten exclusion as ds had been sent to him 3x, what happened to cause the meltdowns? Bizarrely nobody ever seems to be watching to see what this incredibly volatile and disruptive little boy is up to! Where is he? Who is with him? What is he doing? Nope. No idea must be the mother's fault then!

After a lovely relaxing half-term I will be contacting GP,
Inclusion team teacher and the Ed Psych.

I'm fed with being blamed for what goes on at school, you'd think they could get it together to do a behaviour graph or diary to understand the cause rather than treating the result And breathe!

Lambskin

Good for you :)

A child has a meltdown ok........there is ALWAYS a reason for it. It could be certain things going on at school or it could be that he is just playing up but no one is going to know or have the right to say anything if they dont take notice of how things were up till meltdown point stupid ppl!

Whilst your at it ask the school to prepare a home book about his day. I get one for DS and I have managed to find some patterns into his behaviour through it. Sometimes its him and sometimes its the pressure he has been put under or a subject he is struggling with.

If the school dont listen then request all the things you want in place in writing and all your concerns. Keep a copy and insist on a reply in writing. You then at least have something to show that you are not letting things pass and you are concerned for DS welfare. Also I dont think they can just plain exclude your DS without writing to you officially but someone may know more on that as it is a bit vague with me :)

Good luck!

Thank you coff33pot

He has a home/school book but it is ridiculously basic with smiley faces etc in it for good days! I think it's for me not him to read

Will put new and improved home book on list too. They will LOVE me.

You have really helped.

Sorry to IndigoBell for hijacking