Nonsense

[Spinkle]

Am totally fed up of responding to DS' nonsense chatter.

Am I bad?

Unless I push for 'real' conversation, I get 'Are you Spongebob?' or 'Are you Patrick?' and 'it's not early for school' (I have no idea) over and over.

Trying to respond appropriately to these is hard work when I want to scream.

Is it just me? Just want him to move on a bit.

p.s I am probably hormonal.

Hi no of course your not i had the day from hell yesterday with DS it has to go down in our family history as one of the worst , you dont get real conversation and sometimes you need it , we have needs too dont we yesterday all i got was him being OTT hyper with him screaming and shouting at the dogs at the top of his voice over n over in a sillly voice "whos a good doggy" which was also over exciting the bloomin dogs as if he was saying walkies aggghhh , it was impossible to hear yourself think let alone respond appropriately, im going through the change so im not my usually patient self ATM either i just wanted to run away and cry , hope todays better for us both hey

is a good phrase

Also and

Fake active listening skills are pretty vital - that way you can "listen" to the chatter while getting on with the washing up/laundry/cooking

Also, remember that the words coming out are only 7% of what dc is trying to tel you

Oh god we get this too. It is bloody tiring! Our approach (ABA-led) is basically talking over the repetition about something completely different.

(I thought you were doing ABA? Sorry if I've remembered that wrong )

Oh my. I do the and and alllll the time!! Glad it's not just me.

hm - I am of the view that by responding you are "endorsing" the behaviour

I answer the same question 3 times - on the third time I say "I;ve already told you this...but xyz"

for next few times I say "what did I tell you last time? - the answer isn't going to be any different and you are starting to irritate me"

on about 6th time - "I'm sorry but I'm not answering that question anymore - you know people get irritated if you ask the same question again - so I am going to ignore you if you ask that again. Normally it is rude to ignore people, but you have got to learn not to ask the same question again and again"*

similar for the endless repetition of "interesting" facts

*FAOD - he then simply goes and asks his dad or sister instead so you can't win - but we can try :)

or if no-one else is around he just changes to
"what's irritated?"
"why are you ignoring me"

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhh - I;ve been no help at all have I???

The best approach seems to be DS's peers' tactics. They either completely ignore it, run away or change the subject (how they manage I've no idea, but they're much better at it than I am)

aaarggghhh!!! the same thing is driving me crazy - the endless, endless demands for full-on interaction when the genuine communication you are craving is like getting blood out of a stone (and at least the stone doesn't shout at you, hang on you, slap you or pull your hair).

I start off by trying to work out if there is something behind it he is trying to communicate (like playing charades!), then I try to link what he is saying/doing on to something a little less repetitive, then if that fails I just ignore the repetitions and try to give him a cuddle rocking him back and forward or swinging his arms if we are walking. He just wants sensory stimulation and a feeling of closeness to me, if he's too hyper and out of it to process language properly.

At other times it can be a way of avoiding talking if he knows I want to talk about something that makes him anxious (he is so much like a steretypical teenage boy in many ways!)

The worst of it is that ds is very into quizzes at the moment and keeps firing random contextless questions at me eg.

ds: "What is it?"
me: "What is what?"
ds: "Mummy, what is it?"
me: "ds, I don't know what "it" is. Can you give me a clue?
ds: "Yes"
me: "What's the clue?"
ds: "What is it?"
me: "no, the clue"
ds: (getting really angry now) "MUMMY I ASKED YOU WHAT IS IT??!!"

(sound of quiet sobbing and furtive chocolate snatching from kitchen)

There is one good thing that has come out of it though. Dd's language has come on in leaps and bounds and I'm sure it's because I
am so weepingly grateful for her emerging a)desire to communicate factual information b)comprehension of what she feels and why c)interest in past and future events d)lack of fussiness as to the exact wording of my reply e)basic comprehension of stories and events f)interest in finding solutions to problems

that I hang on her every sentence breathlessly as if tiny jewels were falling from her pre-schooler lips.

It's got to be encouraging for her, don't you think?

I laughed at that FickleFreckle -sorry. It was the 'furtive chocolate snatching' which started me off...

I am also aware that our chatter as we walk home often gets overheard and the other mums think - and 'what a strange boy'.

Not that I'm bothered what they think. And I don't want their sympathy either but, you know.

Arghhh...I need a

Fickle can you try turining it into 20 questions? If nothing else it may amuse you through the process

Animal, vegetable or mineral?

Either Donna Wiliams or Temple Grandin talks about doing this as a child (I think its Temple). She says she just liked the comfort of repeating the same sounds over and over (and over and over)again!

I reply a few times, try to make sure I'm using language that is clear and similar each time and then I say (about a hundred times a day)

'I've already said.. xyz.. so I dont need to say it again. If you want to keep saying it, then you can, but I dont need to.'

But thats just me.

Or turn it into a joke

Why is the sky blue?
It the sunlight bouncing off the air molecules
Why is the sky blue?
Because I spilled milk on it
Why is the sky blue?
Because aliens landed and took away the green

etc, you get the idea. I don't know about littlis but the teens with asd i've known mostly appreciate a joke you can "see" is clearly a joke

Yep done that too, it does make things more interesting!
Have to tell her though that I am only joking, otherwise she takes it as gospel.

Oh yes, I do the surreal answers.

DS: What's a flour mill?
me: it's a place where you grind up bananas and make them into pants, which you wear on your head
DS; Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

(he knows exactly what a flour mill is, btw - I'm not messing with his head (much))

Then the pressure is on to keep up the surrealism...

Which has the added advantage of using your brain so it doesn't turn to mush! (too many 14 hour overtime shifts

i like that spinkle ill have to try thatmy main stratergy coping with the constant chatter is to do what purplepidjin does and my other one is if ive answered a few times and hes repeating and repeating either conversations hes heard or programmes hes seen/films he recites them back to me word for word ive a terrible thing i do i call it my SHUTTERS they come down like closing time at a shop enoughs enough or id lose my sanity lol but they do say some brilliantly clever amd funny things sometimes too

I will just add that part of teaching social skills is putting boundaries in place of how much is too much. However, the surrealism can be a good way to do this without necessarily triggering a meltdown - or it's just a good way to change the subject!

Glad it's not just me that's exasperated by DSS's utter nonsense and made up words. We're starting ABA and the advice we've been given is to either change the subject and, if DSS persists in talking nonsense, to totally ignore - no eye contact, no interaction, walk away.

It's hard as DSS will come right up to you, millimetres from your face and repeat himself, but am hoping the ignoring approach may work.

Spinkle it is funny though isn't it - retrospectively! (Have got to watch that chocolate habit though. As ds put it, "When I'm fat like you...")

actually I think it is ME the other mums and dads think are weird - because I am usually muttering away all sorts of rhymes, songs or statements in order to keep ds and dd focused and calm enough to manage the transition. I have a feeling any weirdness in ds is probably attributed to me

Actually can I take this opportunity to ask about verbal rituals in general - we have a pattern emerging especially between transitions like going to school where what starts as a happy game that distracts ds and works a treat becomes more and more obsessive and exacting until it becomes a problem in its own right. ds becomes very fixated in doing it just so and has screaming meltdowns because I won't go back to the beginning and start again when it "goes wrong". Is this common?

pijin the idea of twenty questions sounds like fun (although knowing ds we will get into arguments about whether the target number has been reached and whether so and so was a question and has been adequately dispatched [sigh])

I like the idea of the surrealism which sounds like a good strategy as ds has a very lively sense of humour and if you can make him laugh this sometimes does jolt him out of the rituals.

advice on setting boundaries generally is always appreciated as it isn't something I find easy.

s all around I think, you lot do make me feel better!

BTW AlysWho, I love your name, it's one of my very favourite girls' names.

My DS hates transitions. With a passion.
They need to be kept as short as possible.

Getting ready for school: all uniform ready. Have a wee, get dressed, chase his round with a wet flannel to clean his face, brush teeth. Pick up book bag and lunchbox (always in the same place). Coat on and go. Everything is always always in the same place.

Yup, it's really rigid but becomes second nature. We've got used to it.

On non school days we don't even start talking about going out unless we (the adults) are completely ready. He notices me getting bits and pieces together and gets anxious. I have to do it the night before. If we are not ready when it's discussed then we have, in the past, ended up going out in pyjamas with birds nest hair because he cannot tolerate waiting!

I have no idea if there's a way round it. I think it is fuelled by the twin enemies of anxiety and rigid thought. I imagine small changes over a long period of time might help, but they just build a new 'routine'

"twin enemies of anxiety and rigid thought" - what a good way of putting it. Yes, I find the same thing about small changes building a new routine and can identify so much with what you say.

In the morning I always turn on CBeebies for ds (he is nearly 5 so still in that bracket) as the programmes are short and do provide some distraction and structure even though he does not necessarily watch them - breakfast after Buzz and Tell, the telly goes off before Postman Pat. It has its own drawbacks but before that ds would get locked into something that was open-ended and we would have several battles trying to get him out of it for each task. (I have to get nearly3 yr old dd ready at the same time and just as I get one I "lose" the other)

Like you I find things do have to go like clockwork to make ds feel relaxed so that he can get into the rhythm of things. He loves the games we play when out and about so this is a motivation to get him out of the door but they just become more and more elaborate and exhausting.

We had a stroke of good luck though coming across a book called "The Listening Walk" which talks about all the sounds on a walk a little girl has with her father. Now we can find sounds which requires ds to be quiet and listen for at least some of them time - though he is building up his own rituals around that...latest one is throwing a wobbly because we crossed the traffic lights and he didn't "catch the first sound" by saying the right thing...

We are perhaps not the best fit as I am dyspraxic and absolutely useless at organisation though I do try hard. I sometimes feel sorry for poor ds wishing he had ended up with someone less chronically muddled, but I adore him and really he is the most delightful child even if we do drive each other round the bend at times.

Perhaps the muddliness at home has had an unintended side-effect of making him feel more positive about school once he gets there, because he has a very calm, ordered classroom with a clear visual schedule and he just loves it! (Mind you, he is still quite capable of resisting routine when HE isn't in the mood for something - but then he's in charge, isn't he?)

Fickle, I'm very chaotic (probably ADHD I would guess) and have the same problem as you in that it makes life with DS very much harder. I console myself by saying it's therapy for both of us: it trains me to be better organised and it forces him to experience life not running perfectly!

mariamagdalena that is such a good way of looking at it - definitely having ds has been a gift in the sense of forcing me to confront my organisational problems. It's also made me experience life more immediately and concretely as I have a really buzzy brain with millions of thoughts and words running about in my head, whereas with ds words are a source of delight but not his main way of communication or learning.

I like the idea of it being therapy for ds - yes,there is a limit to how rigid he CAN be