Possible Asperger's diagnosis - your stories plus advice please

[Toffeefudgecake]

I would appreciate some Mumsnet advice and wisdom from those who have been through it/ are going through it. My son (11) is off school at the moment because of anxiety issues. He has been assessed twice for Asperger's, both times by a clinical psychologist. Both times, it was decided that no further assessment was necessary. The last time (a year ago), the conclusion was that his 'language abilities are higher functioning than that found typically in individuals with ASD' and that his difficulties stem from anxiety and delayed social/emotional development.

My problem is that I am not entirely reassured by the assessments, particularly since this latest crisis. My understanding is that Asperger's can best be diagnosed by a multidisciplinary team, or by an individual with specific training in understanding Asperger's. Clearly, not every psychologist will have had this training.

I have asked for a referral to a multidisciplinary team, including speech therapists, for example, but this is not available to me so we will be referred to a psychiatrist instead.

What I wanted to know is: those of you who have children who have been diagnosed with Asperger's - who diagnosed it and how easy was it to diagnose? How many of you had to fight to get a diagnosis? And, those of you who did, are you glad that you did and has it been of help to your child (in terms of understanding and support, for instance)?

More background on my son: he is dyslexic and has suffered from anxiety issues since he was three (tics, OCD behaviour, meltdowns, to name the most obvious). He is quirky, but that might be down to his dyslexia and seeing the world differently. He finds social relationships difficult. He usually has one close friend at a time, but these friendships have broken down one after the other. He finds groups very difficult to cope with. He is bright and thinks deeply about things, but is also astonishingly naieve and ignorant about some things (doesn't know when his birthday is, didn't know the months of the year until we taught him recently, still believes in the goblins who used to leave him presents, was genuinely very upset to discover that Father Christmas didn't exist, despite being told often by his peers). Some of these things could be down to his dyslexia, others to his emotional development.

Over the past few months, school has become intolerable for my son. He feels socially isolated and is anxious all the time. He feels sick constantly at school and suffers stomach pains. He is taken advantage of socially and often feels used or else 'invisible'. He has cut off a close friend who he felt was bullying him. This friend has tried to repair the friendship, but my son is convinced that his actions were deliberate and won't see him. I can't tell if it was playground teasing that my son has misinterpreted, or if my son is right in his interpretation.

By last week, my son was so miserable that I had no choice but to take him out of school. The school have supported me with this and he is now off sick and being educated at home. At home, he is happy and relaxed. He wants to start secondary school in September, but we are concerned about how much support he will need to achieve this.

I read the recent thread about children with Asperger's. So many things sound familiar. I want to get my son the help he needs, but he is fed up with seeing professionals and I know it will be stressful for him to go through another assessment.

It would be useful to hear stories of other people who have been through this process, including those who did not receive a diagnosis, but maybe have children who are borderline.

I don't know what to do: should I accept the diagnosis and just try to support my son with his anxieties and other issues as best I can; or should I pursue the diagnosis and fight for the support and understanding he might need?

Ds has AS/ASD, we were bounced about quite a bit before getting a mutli team dx...luckily it was one professional who upon meeting ds who said .. I only work with children with asd.. I will pass you on to the team.. Who all happen to be very very experienced.

Has the dx bought any real help? Not really he still struggles with all the things he struggles with, doesnt really get a lot of help at current school..
And I have to fight for the most simple adjustments to be made in school. ( we are not talking about SALT or OTor life/ social skills groups...we are talking making sure all the staff are aware of his dx and know how to be unambiguous!).

What a dx has done however.. Is let ds know that he is not a freak, alien boy.. Or anyother of the most choice things he did and does get called..

For me it just confirmed what I thought and howi was dealing with it anyway.. So I knew I was doing the right thing.

You can ask for a second opinion from GOSH they take on complex referrals.

my DS is ASD our concerns were ignored and after being mucked about with dx first time round i gave my DS a rest and started again after a while this time round they were completely different i went to the GP was sent to the Child development clinic , saw the paed (not the regestrar, the are useless) he was sent for an ADOS , and to the SLT and psycologist , they contacted DS school then added all this together saw he meets the three triads of impairment and within two months i had his dx so that was pretty pain free compaired to the first time, YES its deffinately worth getting it as i was bombarded with information ,courses, and generally they all changed their manner from treating me as a "bad mother" and my DS a naughty uncontrollable boy to being understanding and much more tollerent. My DS like your DC had been bullied and had relationship prob with his peers and was crying out for help he even started self harming and is now under CAMHS as he is out of school this is being resolved and hes getting the help he needed, but still if your DC is having problems and is struggling in any of the areas even if borderline it is best IMHO to get the dx so help is offered and he becomes vissible again HTH

Thank you for your replies, Carrot and Betty. That's two votes for going for a diagnosis then.

Carrot - I'm sorry things are still such a struggle, even after a diagnosis. So many people don't understand about autism, so I'm not surprised you are having to fight for adjustments at school. It's a familiar story . But it sounds as if the diagnosis reassured you that you were doing the right things and gave your son an explanation and understanding of why he was different. I didn't know about GOSH - thanks.

Betty - glad you got your diagnosis, even though it took time. Sorry that your son has been bullied and been so unhappy. I hope you manage to get him the help he needs.

Did either of you get this feeling I'm getting of going mad? Some professionals think I am right to be pursuing a diagnois and others seem to think I should just accept what we have been told so far. I feel caught between all these conflicting opinions. All I want to do is understand why my son has these problems and get him whatever help he needs.

Ive discovered why they dont want most of us to get a dx (money)it comes down to flippin money and thats it , they smile and pretend they care but its just a job to most of them they go home and forget all about us (as one would expect) and they arnt there to pick up the pieces when our DC become young adults if we have not got them the help they need wtf will become of them , ty for your kind words Toffee we are our DC only advocate if we dont shout it from the rooftops they need help and understanding who will, none of the profeshionals because they are too busy worrying about £signs and statistics, MY DS IS NOT A STATISTIC ok rant over lol anyone brave enough to do anything fun with their DC this weekend? mine are playing on pc (groan) im bored stiff

Betty - Yes, I think some of it does come down to money, but I think it's lack of training and understanding too. You are right - we have to keep fighting for our children even when other people think we are mad. It's exhausting, though, isn't it? I'm not surprised you are angry.

My DC are watching telly, I'm afraid, whilst I tidy up a very messy house . I feel guilty about it, but it's the easiest way to get the house sorted quickly. Hope your weekend improves .

Although I knew from about 14 months that something was wrong with my son, he was not officially diagnosed until he was 12.

He received DLA at age 8, and was boarded at a special school from 9. He remained in special education until he left school.

Apart from the schools, support was very minimal.

I would push for a diagnosis and school support as much as you are able - shout, scream and rant. If you don't, you won't get anything (and that is a sad fact of life).

Toffee, my ds was dx with Aspergers just under a month ago now. We were referred to a Paed by our GP a year an a half before that, he took a brief history, discussed our concerns, had a chat with ds and then referred on to the multi-disciplinary team with a note to say he felt a dx of Aspergers would be the probably outcome.

Just prior to his assessment he had a WISC IV IQ test done by the Ed Psych and was found to have verbal skills within the extremely superior range. Do you know whether they were referring to your ds's verbal skills specifically or his communication skills, as they are two vastly different things. My ds loves words, is a very advanced reader and can spell any word you throw at him, but he still has a tendency to take things literally and use words and phrases inappropriately sometimes as he hasn't really understood their correct usage. He's not as literal as a lot of the other children we know who have ASD and it sometimes surprises us when he takes us literally, as because he is so verbally able we tend to forget that the understanding isn't always there. He can come across to others as highly intelligent with good communication skills. We've done a lot of work with him around metaphor/idoms and he also 'gets' sarcasm within the family, but not with strangers or at school. If you met him, you would probably think he is a bit quirky, occasionally abrupt and very verbally able.

He also suffers from severe anxiety, which produces some horrible physical effects, such as migraines and bad reflux. We had to take him out of school for a brief period last year and the beginning of this year was awful, but he has improved a lot with help once a week from an Ed Psych.

It does sound to me that if your son has trouble distinguishing between deliberate bullying and lighthearted teasing and has a tendency to misunderstand the intentions of his good friends, then his communication skills might not be a as good as his verbal skills - like my ds. Having good verbal skills can mask other communication problems and this might mean that, being only seen by a single Consultant, the true extent of his communication problems could be missed.

Have you had to fill out a CCC-1 communication checklist at all?

We have been lucky really, in that the PCT that we are under has the gold standard multi-disciplinary assessment and dx team that actually goes around the country training other PCTs. For ds's assessment, we had to fill out a CCC-1 communication skills checklist, a sensory profiling questionnaire and a massive historical and developmental questionnaire that ran from antenatal to the present day. The last one was done with ds's Ed Psychs and took almost two hours. I understand that in many cases these questionnaires are completed on the assessment day and this then delays the results of the assessment.

I have heard some people on here referring to a specialist ASD assessment team at GOSH and I believe they are very good at working with complex and/or borderline cases. I wonder if it might be possible to have your ds referred to them for assessment? Your GP can refer you, but I think they need to have CAMHS approval to do so. this is the link to them

hi toffee ,oh yes but the lack of training comes down to the same too IYSWIM everything inc training costs of course they could just do that as part of teacher training but hey thats far too simple why do they not have a standard way of handling these cases i dont get why they do it one way via certain "profeshionals" in one area and different in another ,god they seem to make it far far more complicated and stressful for our DC and ourselves than need be its already hard enough just getting through each day, im not angry anymore toffee just hate the injustice of it all my son didnt get his dx till he was 10 hes nearly 11 now such a lot of wasted time and because of this hes now unwell so that has made me angry but you sort of get over that hill and now im on the flats my DS has a SS place, i told them i was having problems ect at age 2 what a long road i do hope all of you dont have to wait that long because it does cause damage to them lets hope the SS can help repair that damage for my DS its not the end of problems i know just hopefully now ill get the help more easily , its so draining keep going Toffee you will get there

Lady - thank you. I am not very good at shouting, but I am good at being persistent! I hope that's enough.

Moose - thanks for all that information. You are lucky to be under such an excellent PCT. Our CAMHS is always understaffed and no-one seems to have had any specialist training in diagnosing autism. I don't believe we've ever filled out a CCC-1 communication checklist. We have certainly never filled out a questionnaire that lasted two hours.

My son is dyslexic, so he struggled with learning to read and write (is now excellent and above his age in both [proud mum emoticon]), but he was always described as above average verbally. I think he might have communication problems though - taking things literally sometimes etc. - but because he has never been assessed by a speech therapist I can't tell for sure.

Thank you very much for the link to the team at GOSH, which sounds fantastic. I have already asked the dr for a referral for a third (!) opinion, but he is referring me to a psychiatrist, not a multidisciplinary team. I suppose it would piss him off hugely if I change my mind, but if we saw the team at GOSH, I would believe the outcome. I might have to be an annoying pushy mum again, which doesn't come naturally, but I'm learning.

X-posted, Betty. Yes, I take your point about it all coming back to funding. The NAS is working to standardise CAMHS procedures in diagnosing and treating autism because, at the moment, it is such a lottery, depending on where you live. It is scandalous and far too many children, and their parents, suffer because of this.

I do so agree with you about teacher training. Special needs used to be part of the course, I believe, but now it's optional. That is just so stupid, particularly for primary-school teachers who are going to get an awful lot of undiagnosed special needs' children in the early years at primary school. My son went through hell one year when he was labelled by the teacher as disruptive and I was seen as an inadequate mother who didn't discipline her child. Eventually, we took him to an ed psych who diagnosed dyslexia and my son began to get special help at school and his behaviour improved. However, the special, help also helped him cope with the stress of school and when this was withdrawn, because he was doing so well at reading, he began to struggle again.

In fact, that teacher struggled to cope with several boys that year, all disruptive and labelled as 'naughty'. Every single one of them turned out to have special needs.

It is so, so draining, you are right. I felt physically ill yesterday. I think the stress has an accumulative effect, so all the memories of struggling in earlier years come flooding back. We have been down this road so many times, then my son gets some support and does better, then - because he is doing better - all the support is withdrawn and he flounders again. He has suffered so much - it's just not fair.

Have no idea how that comma sneaked in between 'special' and 'help' .

Toffee, try ringing and asking for a phone consultation with your GP. Mine prefer that than you actually coming in and if you emphasize how the GOSH assessment would be definitive and final then they might be more keen to give it a go.

CAMHS is overstretched here to - I think its pretty much the same story everywhere. Our GP only tried referring us once and it was pointless - they just sent us a leaflet for a local charity that runs a youth club for children who have ASD. That was before his dx, while we were desperate for help because of his severe anxiety and school refusal. To be fair, they don't actually do the dx-ing in our area because we are fortunate enough to have such a good multi-dip team, but they didn't even offer to put him on the waiting list for counselling/support.

Ds wasn't assessed by a SALT, it was the combination of feedback on the work he did with the Ed Psychs (who also attended the assessment) the analysis of all the various questionnaires, the ADOS - done by the Senior Clinical Psych and input from the Paed, School and Inclusion Team. He was supposed to have a basic OT assessment the same day, but had just reached the top of the waiting list for his full OT Assessment for possibly dyspraxia, so the OT just observed him and had a chat with us about his difficulties instead. (It was obvious there are motor issues from his WISC results, school/EP and Inclusion feedback and the fact that he fell over twice, fell off his chair, tripped over the CPs feet and bumped into a cupboard in just one and a half hours of the assessment. )

Things haven't changed massively since we got the dx, but I do think they are starting to shift in our favour and we have some valuable contacts that we can call on if we get stuck (EP and Inclusion). Ds still isn't getting enough support at school, he really needs 1-1 to help him focus and concentrate and his teacher is the first one to say this. He's capable of really good work, but for various reasons, rarely gets past the date and title by the time the rest of the class has finished.

As the nature of his schoolwork changes, we are seeing more and more need for him to have extra support as well. He is especially good at mental maths, getting the right answer in seconds 99% of the time, but he can't break down how he does it or put down his workings out and this is causing him no end of problems. He also struggles with some of the literacy work now, as he can't understand the emotional aspects of a character's part in a story and sees books etc very much as recounting a series of events in a very factual way rather than considering the emotional or social aspects of the story. A lot of the questions he gets these days are "how do you think X felt when Y happened" etc and he really struggles with it.

I am hoping that the dx will help us to get him get more support around these areas. Realistically, he's going to need a statement to get him the level of 1-1 he will need to achieve his potential. I'm sure it won't be easy though, because historically he's always achieved at a high level with no support and he is still doing better academically than a lot of the children in his year, he's just not reaching his potential and we are watching his achievement slide bit by bit at the moment and taking his confidence with it. I'm hoping the dx will help us to drive home his weaknesses/difficulties (they already know his strengths) to the school, so that they can arrange extra support when and where he needs it, but as you know, sometimes you can tell it to them straight, shout, stamp your feet and they'll still choose not to hear you.

My DS was not formally dx'd with Aspergers until he was aged 15, despite showing many characteristics of the condition since he had been a toddler. We were constantly fobbed off with 'he has behaviourial problems' or anxiety or emotional difficulties but no one could explain what these were. his condition was missed by GP, School Nurse, School Doctor and Psychologists.

At 15 his inability to cope with bullying led him, like your son, to be declared unfit to attend school. That's when he was finally referred to CAMHS where the pyschiatrist he saw had absolutely no idea about Aspergers - he couldn't even pronounce it properly.

That led us to seek a private psychiatrist who diagnosed Aspergers after a few hours of talking to him. Then w went back to CAMHS where we say another NHS psychiatrist and psychologist who both confirmed the private dx as Aspergers.

This all happened in the 'dark ages' before knowledge about the conditon became widely known however - knowledge varies greatly across the medical profession. Coupled with this s the factthat Aspergers is a very subjective diagnsosis. Some doctors will not dx it if the child has a sense of humour or makes eye contact - which is frankly ridiculos and just revals how little they know about the condition.

I sus pect your psychologist falls into that category when she said his 'language abilities are higher functioning than that found typically in individuals with ASD'. Some children with Asperegrs can be highly articulate with huge vocabularies. She is confusing ASD where the language ability will usually be less than a child with Aspergers. Having said that Aspergers is an ASD and the language ability varies dramatically from one end of teh spectrum to the other with classic Kanner's autism where the child may not speak at all to the highly articulate high-functioning Asperegrs.

Where your psychologist has got it right is that his difficulties stem from anxiety and delayed social/emotional development. Aspergers is a pervasive developmental delay disorder and the behaviour you've described in your son demonstrates his immaturity and delay - so that's a feature of Aspergers too.

So it appears the psychologist has her own firmly held subjective views about what behaviours must be present to dx Aspergers yet can't recognise a case of Aspergers when it's placed in front of her.

So, I would seek out a private dx. Multi-disciplinary teams are full of individuals with their own (mis) conceptions about what is necessary to dx the condition. A competent clinical psychologist / pyschiatrist with experience in Aspergers does not need a full team and many weeks/month to recognise the condition. So that's why I woudl recommend a private consultation.

Then there's the matter of school. If a child is unable to attend school something is seriously wrong. The school is therefore not suitable for him. The school, as it has admitted it cannot support his needs by permitting him not to attend, should be requesting a statutory assessment that may lead to a Statement of SENs. That would entail a full multi-disciplinary investigation and would lead to him receiving an educational placement that can support his needs. However, during that multi-disciplinary assessment input will be gathered from those local professionals who have failed you very badly so far - ie. school, the LA's Ed Pysch, CAMHS, the Community Paed (who probbaly knows bugger all about Aspergers) etc. The 'hired hands' of the LA will not tell you the truth as it could lead to expensive porvision having to be paid for by the LA.

So that's why I would seek my own private dx and would also have an assessment made by a pivate Educational Pyschologist.

You at at a very crucial time in your son's education. If he cannot cope with his junior school he will definitely not be able to cope in a large, noisy, anonymous secondary school. the anxiety will increase, the support will be less, the bullyng will be intolerable and things will spiral downhill rapidly.

You just about have sufficient time of you started today to try to get a Statement that will name a suitable school by teh time he starts secondary in Sep. You should aim for an autism base (resource base), which is a mainstream sheltered unit attached to a mainstream school where he can follow the National Cirriculum in a sheltered environamnet attached to but separate from the mainstream school intake.

Best wishes
Sorry about spelling

Wetaugust is so right and makes a lot of good points about all of the above Toffee and said all that much more eloquently than i could lol unfortunately in my area we only have seconadary schools with units but they are for extra ciricular purposes and still have to spend majority of their time in MS classes using the unit mainly after /before school and during break but this amount of support for As is often enough giving them a safe haven and other AS children to talk too i feel it would have been much more benificial in my DS case if they had been more sheltered environment but in my DS case he needs much more support so SS is the next viable option (he starts after the half term hols)

Thank you, Moose, WetAugust and Betty. Your posts are really useful. I'm being distracted by my youngest (5) at the moment, but will come back on here later and read through again.

Hi

Your poor son. I have an aspie with some other stuff. I'm also a sEN teacher. What you describe is fairly typical and I have a couple of profound dyslexics with shades of grey of ASD tendencies. One cannot do change very well and gets a bit obstinate but he gets all the socialisation stuff. The other is a bit quirky and finds socialising more tricky but it is partly because he is phenominally intelligent and so advanced beyond his year group that he finds other boys rather simple creatures! Neither can be said to be aspergic. Your son is clearly showing major major anxiety issues - we have one of ours - now very grown up who also did this at primary. Like your son he has never had a diagnosis but I reckon he is an aspie because of his rigid thinking. What rings bells for me about your description is the incident with the best friend. That comes across as very ASDish. I don't think a straight forward dyslexic would be so rigid as that. I find that anxiety always makes the autism come out in spades in my son. When he is happy - he is not autisic. When stressed - full on autism.
If you can scrape the magic beans for a private diagnosis then I would. OR what about somewhere like BIBIC? If he is this anxious at primary then he is going to need a careful transition into secondary. On saying that we have had one pupil who spent all of his primary years sitting under a table crying and has taken to secondary like a duck to water (although I still can't get him to read or write despite everything I do) but at least he is happy and sociable.

DS was dx'd privately as well, after one NHS psych disagreed that he showed any signs of being on the spectrum. I did continue with a second opinion through the NHS though, and it was confirmed by CAMHS eventually.

I've heard that some LAs don't like/won't accept a private dx, so even if you do decide to go private, it may be worth pushing for the GOSH referral as well. You can find the names of private paeds if you do a search on MN, or feel free to PM me.

Our dx was crucial for us, as many school staff didn't believe that there was anything wrong with him at all. He now has a statement and attends a special school for AS, where all the staff are trained in autism.

In many ways my DS is similar to yours, he also has good language skills and does well academically, but struggles with friendships and suffers from anxiety. However, he would have severe and violent meltdowns in school, which meant that mainstream/unit wasn't appropriate for him.

I agree with WetAugust that you should apply for a statement if he doesn't have one already. You don't need any dx to apply for one, and he clearly has other difficulties and dx.

As an aside - are you receiving DLA for him? You also don't need a dx to apply, and with his other difficulties I expect that you have a lot of documentation which could support an application.

toffee my son sounds very similar to yours , he is 11. he isnt dyslexic but since starting secondary things have become really difficult. It seemed he was being bullied but the school said it was 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of the other and that maybe he had aspergers or similar. i also have had to take ds2 out of the school. I have educated him at home for 3 months and he has just started a new school last wednesday.
we have had a referral to camhs social / asd or whatever it is but the waiting list is long and it could be summer before hes assessed they say.
sorry , nothing i can really help you with as i am also confused ! but i couldnt help saying hello lol as our situations sound so similar. i have posted alot about it recently.
some good advice and knowledge from the mumsnetters though :)

My 2 boys were diagnosed after interviews at Camhs which led on to a specialist centre locally. I do recognise lots of what you are saying in our experience.

Some people say that treating the child as if they have a full diagnosis is helpful right away because it helps the parent approach the child from a more understanding and tolerant viewpoint.

I'd focus on being kind to yourself and your son as you begin to recover from the recent overload of stresses.

As you feel ready then make another move towards getting a diagnosis.

There may be an aspergers/autism parent support group near you. Contact them and see of you can join in prior to diagnosis. I did and found that I felt quite at home there!

So much good advice here - thank you everyone.

Moose - phone consultation with GP about GOSH is a vg idea -thanks. It's really frustrating for you that the school don't worry about him academically because he's doing well, even when you know he's not reaching his potential. Like your son, mine did the WISC test (aged 6) and scored in the superior range for verbal skills. Last year, a psychologist tested him on idioms, but I wasn't convinced by her interpretation of the results. He had to look at pictures and point to the one that reflected the phrase she said, eg. 'My room is a pigsty'. For this, he pointed at the pigsty instead of the untidy room. He got the first three wrong, taking them literally, but then seemed to catch on to the expected answer and began to answer correctly. He is not daft. He did understand concepts like lying to protect someone's feelings though - am not sure if a child with AS would be able to do that (maybe some might).

WetAugust - what a tough time you and your son have had. Sadly, it's not an unusual tale. What you say about the psychologist confusing language and communication makes sense. It is interesting that his emotional immaturity can be a feature of Aspergers. Thank you very much for your advice about seeking a statement. With regard to school, there is only one big comprehensive that my son can attend and I don't know of any schools with autism units attached. I am going to have to meet with the special needs' head at the secondary school to discuss how they can deal with my son's issues. I already know that they can provide children with yellow cards which they hold up when they need to go to a quiet room to recover. However, I suspect my son will not want to appear different from anyone else (even though he is), and that would mark him out. I'll have to see what the school suggest. I will be looking into either GOSH, as recommended by Moose above, or into a private diagnosis, preferably someone recommended by the NAS.

Bettyboop - good luck to your son at his new school. I really hope it works out well.

Flying - another very informative post, thanks. My son is just like yours in that he can appear absolutely normal if he is not stressed (well, always a bit quirky), but very Aspergish when he's stressed. When he's in the middle of a meltdown out of all proportion to the trigger (to us, I mean - obviously not to him), he appears very much on the spectrum. After all, it is an invisible disability, which made the psychologist's comment when she first saw him ("I can tell just by looking at him that he doesn't have Asperger's") utterly ridiculous. Thank you for your insight.

Sugar - thank you. I had no idea I could apply for DLA at present, although I supposed I could if we received a diagosis of AS. I didn't think dyslexia and anxiety issues would be enough to qualify. I will look into it though - we certainly have enough paperwork. Very good to hear that the diagnosis helped you. And point taken about seeking a statement.

Sorry, I have to go, but will come back later to answer further posts. Thank you all - it really helps.

Hi - my dd1 age 12 is in the middle of a year long waiting list for an Asperger's assessment with multidisciplinary team. She has OCD type issues with food/hygiene/clothing and a bit like your ds is very withdrawn and anxious at school. She barely speaks at school and shows no facial expressions at all - a bit like selective mutism, although the Ed Psych insisted this was only really found in much younger children.

At home or if we go away for the weekend somewhere, she is completely different - lively, assertive, confident! I am persisting with attempting to get a diagnosis although I'm not confident she will get one. I might look into the private diagnosis several people have mentioned - but do the NHS/schools take these seriously?

at "I can tell just by looking at him that he doesn't have Aspergers". What an utterly idiotic and unprofessional thing to say.

My ds is really good on idiom and metaphors because we have spent time explaining them to him and he has a couple of books about them. During his assessment the Clinical Psych tried to throw a few into the conversation eg When you get given some money for birthdays or christmas, does it burn a hole in your pocket? Ds replied, "That's a metaphor? It means you can't wait to spend it - I read it in my book." The CP looked at me and said "Ahem, yes well, I think I'd better stop trying to be clever now. You are obviously much cleverer than me."

He is also a proper little fib teller at the moment, usually motivated by protecting himself from getting told off.

He definitely understands the concept of lying to protect someone else's feelings, but he wouldn't necessarily judge it right and might end up lying at an inappropriate time. He understands that other people have feelings and get upset and has learned by experience what things he's done in the past that have upset people. His difficulty lies in not being able to tell that people are upset unless they tell him they are and not understanding that something that wouldn't necessarily bother him, might be very upsetting for someone else.

Mole - good luck in getting your diagnosis. I know that with a diagnosis of dyslexia schools are not legally bound to observe a private educational psychologist's report, but my son's school did take notice of his, so it depends on the school. It's ridiculous that it is not a legal requirement, really, because you can only get a private diagnosis for dyslexia anyway. I'm not sure what the situation is for private diagnoses for other conditions. I know someone whose son was diagnosed with Tourettes privately and the school took notice of that. But, then again, the mother could not get a diagnosis on the NHS, so she had no choice and perhaps the school recognised that. I suppose the only thing you can do is speak to the school in question.

Mumslife - it's interesting that you say that (about my son seeming Asperger's more than dyslexic). The small groups he was in for his dyslexia probably helped him cope better with school life too. I wonder now if the reason my son did better when he had cbt for his anxiety wasn't so much the cbt as the fact that he had a teaching assistant to help him cope with the stress of school. She became his class TA last year, so was able to continue to keep an eye on him, but she has gone to another class this year.

Cheeryface - yes, sounds like a very similar situation to mine. I'm glad to hear you have found a new school for your son and I hope it goes well this time. May I ask how your three months' of home education went? Did you enjoy it? Any tips? Good luck with CAMHS. I hope they can help you.

Toojung - thanks for your advice. I agree that we need to be kind to ourselves for the moment. I have been very relaxed with DS about what we do at home in the last week. I feel like he's been through enough and should be allowed to just relax and feel in control of his own life again. I don't know of a support group near me, but I do know several mums with children who have autism and find talking with them can be very helpful, particularly when we are discussing meltdowns and triggers for anxiety. Treating my son as if he already has a diagnosis is probably a good idea as there are bound to be strategies for anxiety, for instance, that might work for him. Certainly, I am not pushing him to be sociable at the moment, as he really doesn't miss anyone at school and is actually perfectly happy at home with family. I used to worry about this, but I've chosen not to worry anymore (I have plenty of other things to worry about with him, so this is the least of my concerns). The important thing is that he is relaxed again.

Moose - at your son's answer to the psychologist. When my son was a toddler, we used to read books about feelings and expressions. We would draw pictures of happy faces and sad or worried faces. If my son is Asperger's, maybe this helped him to cope better - but also masked his difficulties.

Moose and Mumslife - you can see why I didn't have much faith in the psychologist after she said that!

I noticed my son using sarcasm several times today. So he definitely knows what it is and how to use it. He does get confused about people's expressions sometimes though. He often accuses me of being angry with him when I am speaking very calmly and am genuinely not angry at all (I have learnt, over the years, to remain very calm with him otherwise it can trigger an outburst). He won't believe me when I promise him I'm not angry. He often asks me if I'm all right, when I really am feeling perfectly all right, which I find confusing. ("Are you sure you're all right, Mum? I thought maybe you were upset"). On the other hand, he was always very sensitive to my feelings after my father died. His response whenever he noticed me feeling sad was to say a line from 'Father Ted' which would make me laugh. Could he have noticed my sadness if he had Asperger's? The psychologist in the last report noted that he showed empathy, which he does (he put his arm around me when he was four and I had fallen down the stairs - it was the first time I'd noticed him showing empathy). Does that rule out AS?

It is all very confusing. I can see clear signs of Asperger's in some ways, but not at all in others. Which is why I need someone I trust to give me an answer one way or the other.