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SN children

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Original poster

Who helped you? Any advice appreciated

21 replies

SpiderObsession · 08/02/2011 08:54

My DS(5) is in reception. His behaviour is very challenging at school. The worst thing according to her is his soiling which is about 3x a week in school although the past two weeks it's got worse. He has an IEP to cover this but obviously is making no progress. He is not constipated and does not react to rewards (other than the first one or two times). His teacher says she's ran out of ideas, that afternoons revolve around him and that she loses her TA each afternoon to deal with him.

We're currently going through CAMHS. Their initial diagnostic test suggests mild autism and/or adhd (I suspect AS). We're being referred to a scat team, having diagnostic test for adhd and a cognitive test on his short-term memory.

All this will take time and in the meantime he's struggling at school, and so is his teacher.

This is all new to me. Should I be getting others involved for his soiling and/or his other behavioural issues eg GP, support groups, other professionals? I've been told I have to shout and shout loud but feel rather isolated at present.

OP posts:

intothewest · 08/02/2011 09:01

I would start with your gp- he can check if there is any underlying physical cause for the soiling- he can also refer your ds on.- also you may find it helpful to get in touch with the continence service.

Unfortunately I have been told(and have witnessed) those who shout loudest get help- but that is not always the case

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 08/02/2011 09:04

I'll check it out. Thanks for the quick reply intothewest

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IndigoBell · 08/02/2011 09:11

Does he soil at home or just at school?

IndigoBell · 08/02/2011 09:12

And what on earth is in the IEP?

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 08/02/2011 09:26

Both. It was mostly at school but has switched this last week and has been more at home.

IEP: Individual Education Plan

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IndigoBell · 08/02/2011 09:47

No what is in the IEP.

What is his SMART target about soiling in the IEP?

Before he started school was he clean at home? I mean is he def soiling on purpose, or you don't know, or def not?

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 08/02/2011 11:17

Oh sorry. I don't remember seeing SMART objectives. It was a line or two to say that the aim is for him to go to the toilet.

So, firstly I need to ask to see the IEP again.

He has never been toilet trained. Before he started school he was much better but not stopped (the most we had was a couple of weeks dry). But we were optimistic.

He will soil when he is angry/upset or sometimes when he is engrossed in play or learning (1-2-1 with teacher), sometimes I have no idea why he does it. He won't say why he's doing it. When asked eg can you feel when you need to go, were you upset at the time, did someone make you angry etc he will reply "yes" to all.

We were prescribed laxatives in case of compaction. That didn't work. So I'm at a loss to know why it's happening.

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IndigoBell · 08/02/2011 11:43

An IEP should include not just a target, but what support school and home are putting in place for him to achieve the target. Otherwise what is the point of the IEP?

(Most schools do IEPs very badly)

Does he need the TA to take him to the toilet every hour?

auntevil · 08/02/2011 14:20

Surprisingly, toiletting issues can effectively be on IEPs - or if not on the IEP as a strategy. My DS2 has dietary issues - and has gone through phases where he soiled up to 6 times a day. He was put on hourly toiletting. When he was re-medicated, and the soiling reduced, the use of rewards for going to the toilet at breaks/on request/ as requested etc would lead to extra computer time. The measurement is easy to work out
It really just depends on when and why your DS is soiling. Have you made a note of what time, where , how often etc to see if there is a pattern? Does he do it after playtime - or perhaps 20-40 minutes after lunch - or 20-30 minutes before going home etc. After lunch could perhaps be a dietary cause? Before coming home a relaxation at going home? Could playtime be stressful?
It's worth speaking to the gp again. Were the laxatives prescribed by the gp or a gastroenterologist? A compaction should be able to be felt by the gp - so i'm a bit as to why laxatives were prescribed in case of this?

sickofsocalledexperts · 08/02/2011 14:50

ABA - or behavioural therapy helped me sort out absolutely loads of my DS's behaviours - including refusing to walk, tantrums, aggression of many sorts, stims of many kinds. It is not perfect, but it is better than some other more namby-pamby therapies we tried (and we tried EVERYTHING, and wasted many £s, after my boy was diagnosed ASD at aged 2 1/2).

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 08/02/2011 15:06

The teacher did start to jot down when he soiled (mainly afternoon). I'll ask her to be specific eg playtime, 1-2-1.

The laxatives (movocol??) prescribed by a gp to rule out the compacted constipation. I was also but did not question it, I was foolishly pleased to have some help.

I'll look into ABA aswell.

Thanks all for your support. Feeling a bit better now I have ideas to look into.

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TotalChaos · 08/02/2011 15:58

Agree re continence service referral. Gp can sometimes tell there is impaction just by feeling tummy but think you wld need tests like an x ray to be certain.

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 11/02/2011 10:51

I saw the GP this morning as he's referring DS1 to a community pead.

I went to see the Head of DSs school. It turns out she's the SENCO. In terms of his behaviour they're not worried. She said there's always a challenging child (or two)in reception and that there has been an improvement in his behaviour. The head can tell if he's having a good or a bad day because in assembly on a good day she won't notice him, on a bad day he'll fidget a lot. BUT she said there's another 6 months to go in the school year. If his behaviour hasn't improved again by then, that's when they'll start to ask for help on that side. So one thing less to worry about (for now).

Regards his soiling (for example in the first 10 days in Feb he's soiled himself 15 times compared to 5 for DS2 (2.5yrs) the school have never come across an older child (born Dec) who persistently soils. That's their concern because it takes the TA out of the classroom to deal with him AND DSs self esteem is starting to be effected.

They can't bring in an Ed Psych because he's doing really well academically.

Thanks to all those who replied. I'm feeling more confident about who to engage and what to let go. Let's hope we find some sort of solution soon!

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IndigoBell · 11/02/2011 11:53

The Ed Psych does not just assess kids with academic problems.

The role of an Ed Psych is to help kids 'access learning in the classroom' - so any kid, who for any reason cannot learn in class is within the remit of the EP.

(Unless they're under some other team...)

So it depends if there is a medical reason why he soils (not EP) or a psychological / behavioural one (def EP)

It is very hard to see the EP because schools don't have enough EP time for all the kids they would like to be seen. So you will need to really fight for it ( if you think it would help....)

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 11/02/2011 12:01

That's interesting IndigoBell. I didn't realise that. So essentially the smoke screen was up when I talked to the head this morning.

I don't think I can pursue EP until I know what the problem is. I'm hoping the community paed will help put there (or perhaps rule out some things). If a medical reason is ruled out then I'll have to push.

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moosemama · 11/02/2011 12:02

I agree with Indigo, the Ed Psych isn't just for academic problems. My ds has no academic issues, but has been working 1-1 with an EP since last October on anxiety related problems.

Check on your LEAs website if your Ed Psychs have a support line. Our did and that's how they got involved with ds. I rang them for advice in desperation, they talked it all through with me, arranged to go into school and observed him and it went from there.

In most cases it would be the school that brings them in, but it might be worth a phonecall at least.

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 11/02/2011 12:23

Bingo. The EP for DSs school is going to ring me back this afternoon.

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moosemama · 11/02/2011 12:38

Great.

Ds had physical symptoms (reflux and stomach problems) that no-one was could decide if they were being caused by physical problems or psychological/anxiety related ones. (Sorry that's really badly worded, but you get the gist. )

We were referred to the Paed by our GP and in the meantime I contacted the EP myself, who got involved pretty much straight away, even though medical problems hadn't been ruled out. The reflux has settled down considerably, but the other digestive issues are ongoing, so it seems it was most likely a bit of both psychological and physical.

Hope you are able to get some help for your ds really soon.

Anna85 · 11/02/2011 14:10

SpiderObsession - my DS is 5 and has ASD. Since he has been in nursery he has suffered from behaviour problems. An outside agency was brought in with no real improvement and now he has a DX the County Inclusive Resource Team have been asked to be involved.

Because of his behaviourla problems he isn't llearning. No strategies they put in place sseem to work or if they do he gets wise to them. Therefore I am about to ask for a Statutory Assessment xx

Original poster

SpiderObsession · 11/02/2011 16:06

Thanks Anna85. I'll look into that too. Your DS sounds like mine in the "getting wise" thing, he loves those loopholes!

Let me know how you get on with your DS.

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Anna85 · 11/02/2011 17:56

I will do!! I just feel that Reception is the foundations for school so therefore at the moment he is getting no benefit out of it! Some days are better then others!! The school says "he likes to play the clown"!!

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