End of tether.

[bullet234]

I've copied and pasted this from another forum and it's made up of three posts, so bear with me please. This is an ongoing situation, so this has become the final straw.

I have another question. You are a teacher. You teach a class of children with various disabilities. In your class there is a lad with high functioning autism. What this translates as is he is 7.5, with significant receptive language issues, echolalia and when speaking his sentence structure is like a cross between a professor and a four year old child. The child also has obsessions, routines and significant social difficulties that means he lacks social boundaries, empathy and perspective at a far greater rate than you'd expect to find in a typical 7.5 year old (which is not fully formed at any rate).
Ok, got that? So, this 7.5 year old is upsetting his classmates by his comments on their work, eg telling another lad his handwriting is not good. How do you deal with this?

1: Ask parents if they have any advice as to what works at home. Implement modelling behaviour. Accept that this 7.5 year old does not have the ability to see things from others perspectives, or to know that there is a time and place for brutal honesty.

2: Send a curt note home to the parents saying how this 7.5 year old is upsetting the other children, say nothing about what help you are given to this 7.5 year old in school (which is a school for communication and interaction as part of its criteria) and generally make out that the 7.5 year old is capable of understanding.
That was yesterday.

Followed by update today.

Well, it just gets better and better with Ds1's teacher . Reply to my reply came back in his home schoolbook. Saying that they appreciate his diagnosis but we need to be aware of developments and that he needs positive role models so they feel he should join the cubs.
Lets break that down shall we?

"Appreciate his diagnosis" Really? When their approach to him is to view him as being naughty in his actions?

"We need to be aware of developments". Goodness, I do not know myh own son. But you want to talk about developments, how about a lad that is floundering, that can read a story without understanding it, that is becoming increasingly more clingy with me and his brother and daddy. That is unable to tell us almost all of what is going on in the school. That couldn't even tell is why he had been sent to the quiet room the other day. Those developments? Or the social interaction difficulties that we see at home as well.
"Positive role models". Right, because we speak to him like shit at home, clearly . No verbal modeelingt, behavioural modelling, constant attempts to teach him how to behave at home. Of course not . No consistent boundaries, treats given out sparingly, positive attention given and consequences to negative behaviour shown at all. Not a bit of it . And no playing in the park, or in soft play or with our friend's son with typically developing children. And are they saying they have no positive role models in his class? That all children there are like Ds1, even though they have been getting upset at his comments and even though nothing has been said about any impact they are having with him.
Join the cubs. Now to be fair I've said I'll consider this if I get reassurance that he'll get the support he needs and not be dismissed as understanding and coping because he's verbal. But I've also said I'm not pitching him into a group of mostly children without special needs without knowing the support is in place for him. And the insinuation is plain: get him mixing with "normal" children and he'll be fine with his social skills. No mention about seeing if there's a special social skills group for children on the spectrum, or even a standard activity group. I tried him at a special group sports club last year and it was a disaster because he was presumed he had good understanding.
I want to take the stupid woman and ask her what the bloody hell she is playing at. I want her to ask what experience she actually has of understanding a child on the spectrum. I want to ask her why she herself is incapable of empathy, of realising Ds1's needs are not going to be solved by simply placing him in an afterschool group of typical children, as though all he needs is osmosis, regardless of the fact he comes into contact with "typical" children on a regular basis. I want to cry, because he is stuck with the stupid sod for two years in her class, because I don't think there are even any ASD/special needs units in the mainstream schools in my town and because though I could home-educate him, DH would not be happy with that and he has the right to have his say.

I have held back from saying that as a person on the spectrum who has spent her entire life, education etc in a very mainstream society I still have and always will do have difficulties with social interaction, though for differing presentations.
There is nothing about what help they give to him at school. Nothing about the acknowledgement that he needs to be specifically taught social skills if he is to have any chance of picking them up and using them. She creates the impression in her writings that he is capable of understanding. He is not. I can't go to the head of department because they will just smile and nod and then leave the teacher to it.

The other site have given me some good, practical and supportive answers. But could I have some help here as well please, or at least another place to offload.

gah what a mess *splices more leagth onto op 'tether' no real advice from me but feel free to vent, maybe one of the others will have some advice and good luck

Hi Bullet,

Sorry you're having such a rubbish time at the moment.

Does he have a statement? Or is he just on School Action / School Action+?

Does he have an IEP?

He has a statement and an IEP. He's in a special school, which makes it more infuriating. The trouble is is that the verbal abilities he does have, combined with his hyperlexic skills and good rote and long term memory are enough for him to be seen as understanding and coping when he isn't.
Thank you for the replies. Sorry if my OP seems jumbled together only I was struggling to reword it from the originals.

He's in a special school!

Ok, that makes it hugely more wrong. Surely staff at special schools should be a bit better trained.....

So what is in his IEP, and how often do you have IEP review meetings, and how often do you see the SENCO?

Do you have a home / school diary?

There's a huge home / school communication problem here....

Ironically I was very pleased with his IEP as it did acknowledge the need to help him with social skills at least. It's just in his homeschool book the impression given that he's just being naughty. Now that doesn't mean he's never naughty, because of course he can be. But it's not the main reason or the sole reason and most of his negative behaviours at school and home are because he doesn't "get" what to do, how to transfer behaviours or generalise for example.
I don't want him to do exactly what he likes in the classroom, I just want them to understand there is a reason for his behaviours. That he has the emotional and social maturity of a much younger child.

Oh no :( does he have a paed or ed psych appointment coming up? Sounds like because they perceive him as able they think he shld be bright enough to pick up social skills at teacher request whereas of course its the nature of asd that its not quite that simple....

I think you're right TotalChaos. The ironic thing is that the abilities he does have often mask his academic difficulties as well. Eg spending weeks at a traditional farm centre learning old skills for harvest and then not understanding what harvest was all about, or what was going on in the festival for it.
I find it nigh on impossible to get help for myself and will deny and mask my own difficulties in real life. But I can't do that with him.

I'd be tempted to send in a load of literature about autism, social skills and the lack of ability to generalize and transfer knowledge with a wee note saying, well I appreciate your knowledge about his diagnosis about as much as you clearly appreciate the diagnosis

of course that is a wee bit confrontational...

alternatively you could send a letter to or ask for a meeting with the class teacher and either the SENCO or head teacher outlining exactly how his autism and not lack of positive role models is causing this situation and ask what they're planning to do about it bearing in mind that social skills are already outlined as a target area in his IEP

Thank you for the suggestions tabulahrasa. I have tried to set out how and why Ds1's issues effect him. I have compromised and shown willing. He displays the same behaviours at school and home, there's no difference from what I can make out. It's just, I'd rather they approached it with something like the ABC model rather than (and this was a few months ago) saying he had not made himself popular with the other children as he'd climbed up a slide and refused to come down. For context, it was an out of school playground in an unfamiliar environment, the routine of the day had been shifted round and he is rather scared of slides (so don't ask what he was doing climbing up them ). This response was in reply to my very polite note explaining that Ds1 was getting distressed at another child tapping him and did they have any strategies that would help him deal with it.
He can come across as very challenging. If you'd sat next to him shouting over and over about Grandpa's Flumpet you'd be tearing your hair out and he undoubtedly is causing disruptions for the other children, even when he's not seeing fit to point out their handwriting or telling a lad with a stammer to "speak to me properly". But he's challenging for a reason.

I have a 7 year old on the spectrum, I find it very helpful to say "Well, as you can see from the behavior problems he has been having, he clearly needs more social support than he is getting. How do you plan tio address his need?"

I find you have to keep telling them how it affects them, over and over, before it sinks in, lol

which is why I was suggesting involving someone else - you basically want to fairly subtly let their boss know that they have no understanding of what the actual problem is rather than what the teacher thinks the problem is

because the problem isn't your son's behaviour - the problem is that they aren't providing social skills suport

the thing is, the teacher telling you that he's being rude to other children is effectively the same as him telling the child with the stammer to speak properly

Exactly.

I am appalled they see him as 'naughty' in a special school!!

Speak to the Ed Psych and explain your concerns. They might be able to act as a middle man before communication breaks down.

Cetainly a chat with the Head is in order.

I would like to hope they just aren't communicating well (oh the irony ) in the home school book and they are approaching it with the premise that he's autistic rather than naughty. But when I read their reports it does make wonder.
And of course there's been a big change in Year 3, which is his new year and a lot of the work needed are things he will struggle with academically now. He's been refusing to do a lot of the work.
I do have sympathy with them, but I have far more for Ds1. And them saying , basically, just to get him in cubs so he can mix with positive role models (I don't know where to begin with that ) makes me want to tell them that I was in Brownies, Guides, Sunday School, Church Youth Group and I still didn't pick up on the social cues and behaviours of others. So why they think a lad with greater difficulties will do so is beyond me.
Thank you for all the replies and letting me rant.

Ranting is very important!

Year 3 is a massive change from Year 2.

The school I work at refuses to use home school books. Things written down can be misconstrued montumentally (not saying that you have, of course) and staff don't always have the time to state exactly what they want to say, in an appropriate fashion. In a way they do not aid communication very much but they can confuse it.

Cubs is not a cure all, as you say. You may struggle to find a pack who will have room for him or be willing to take him on. We have been on the list for Beavers for years but somehow, we never seem to get to the top...

Well I've told them I'm going to contact a nearby church youth group which is for over 5s (ohhh, I could send Ds2 there as well ) and ask if they could support Ds1 and if so then I'll start taking him to that. If no support, then he won't go. I don't mind listening to what they have to say, as long as they listen to what I have to say.

You seem entirely sensible and much more rational than I would be.

Church group sounds like a great idea

And now they have just phoned and said they are going to try and get funding for someone to come and help him in the group if he goes. Which is a lot more reassuring.

Sounds good re church group, is it school or church who are looking into extra support? Colditz is bang on as to the issue I think. Cubs is a decent idea in terms of providing a structured social opportunity i.e for his benefit but possibly school have just phrased things badly re role models

It's the school, via the Outreach Service.